Passage Guide Commentaries Settings in v6.10

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Feb 2 2016 6:41 PM

"Added the ability to select a particular number of commentaries to load, this can be set in your template or by clicking settings entering the number of commentaries you want to see in this section, then right clicking on the commentaries header and selecting refresh."

These is counter-intuitive. I had expected Enter to confirm the change and "refresh" the number of commentaries, whereas the "refresh" happened only when I accidentally selected another collection or as follows:

  1. change the number from 10 to 8 and "refresh" as intended (in a custom PG)
  2. change the number from 8 to 5
  3. exit Settings and then confirm that 5 is displayed
  4. Click more > which displays 5 more commentaries. Total 13 (with more available)
  5. Refresh Guide and the context "refresh" results in 5 commentaries
  6. Delete Guide results in 10 commentaries

Confusing!? Note that the Template has been unaffected by all this.

Why have the default as 10 which means I have to change the template of all Commentaries sections in all my custom PG's?

Dave
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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 11:13 AM

Dave Hooton:
These is counter-intuitive. I had expected Enter to confirm the change and "refresh" the number of commentaries,

Agree. We're looking into that.

Dave Hooton:
Why have the default as 10 which means I have to change the template of all Commentaries sections in all my custom PG's?

The number in the setting not only changes the initial number that is shown but the number of further results that appear when you click "more". It's essentially a page size. Prior to this change, the first page of the list was 6 items long, and if you hit "more" the second page length was 30. So one click gets you up to a total of 36. After this change, the page size is uniform, so if we leave it at 6, one click would get you 12. We settled on 10 as a "split the difference" compromise, so one click gets you 20. Uniform page sizes is more consistent with other parts of the application, and is the direction that we'd like to move further toward in the future. We considered having two page size settings, one for the initial list, and one for subsequent pages, but that seemed like overkill and more complicated than it was worth.

We have also heard from users over the years that the underlying desire to make this a user-configurable setting in the first place is that they want more commentaries in the section not fewer, so I felt that a higher default number should be a better fit for most people. (Individual results may vary, of course.)

The last reason is bigger picture. An initial page size of 6 and a secondary page size of 30 was the result of a lot of back and forth negotiation with various interested users over the years. I have to assume that people are used to that compromise more than they are actually happy with it. Rather than us maintaining all these fine-tuned compromises throughout the app (and getting a lot of them wrong, at least for some users some of the time), I'd rather empower individuals to make the choice that best fits their workflow.

That said, we weren't intending to create a burden for anyone. When you say you have to change all the commentaries sections in all your custom PG's do you mean custom templates, or stored guide instances, or both? (Modifying the templates should be a minor one-time hassle for an ongoing reward, but changing each instance individually does sound like a lot of tedious busy work to me. I'll confirm.)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 2:20 PM

Eli Evans:
That said, we weren't intending to create a burden for anyone. When you say you have to change all the commentaries sections in all your custom PG's do you mean custom templates, or stored guide instances, or both?

I meant custom templates and making the change is minor (for me), but I rarely consult more than two commentaries in any of the three sections I have. I hadn't realised that the previous "more" would produce up to 30 commentaries, so having a uniform page size is beneficial - just that 6 is better!

As for Saved Guides (on the right):

The guide came from May 2014, but only three commentaries in the first section and NONE in the second! The collections have changed slightly but the result seems to be impacted by changes in Prioritization. The commentaries in the third section are the same because the collection of Notes includes the rule mytag:Notes and none are prioritised. The table below shows the number of commentaries to be loaded:-

                  Current guide    Saved guide

section 1           7                     10

section 2           5                     10

section 3           5                     10

Dave
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Eli Evans (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 2:32 PM

Thanks for the clarification, Dave. I'll send it along the chain.

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 2:37 PM

Eli Evans:
After this change, the page size is uniform, so if we leave it at 6, one click would get you 12. We settled on 10 as a "split the difference" compromise, so one click gets you 20. Uniform page sizes is more consistent with other parts of the application, and is the direction that we'd like to move further toward in the future.

FWIW, I prefer the new system. Six wasn't quite enough. Thirty-six was too many. Ten/Ten works well for me.

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PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 4:01 PM

Eli,

The new setting is not working. 

I had a PG open. I let Logos upgrade to 6.10 beta 1 and restarted it. I changed the setting from 10 to 100. It seemed to take my change.

I hit More on the open PG. It's still giving me 10 more. The setting still says 100. 

So I changed the Bible passage and had the PG regenerate. It gives me 10 commentaries. I checked the setting.. it is now back to 10.

What's happening?

Thanks,

Peter

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Dave Hooton:

The guide came from May 2014, but only three commentaries in the first section and NONE in the second! The collections have changed slightly but the result seems to be impacted by changes in Prioritization. The commentaries in the third section are the same because the collection of Notes includes the rule mytag:Notes and none are prioritised. The table below shows the number of commentaries to be loaded:-

                  Current guide    Saved guide

section 1           7                     10

section 2           5                     10

section 3           5                     10

There has been no change to the behavior of saved guides. The number of currently visible entries can be saved with the guide (depending on whether or no other significant changes are made to the guide). This number of visible entries could be more than one page if the more link had been clicked, or less than one page if some results had been removed with the "x" button or resources have been hidden. I can't find any way that prioritization affects the initial visibility of results when loading a guide.

This new setting only affects the number of results that are displayed when the section is refreshed, or when the more link is clicked.

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PL:

I had a PG open. I let Logos upgrade to 6.10 beta 1 and restarted it. I changed the setting from 10 to 100. It seemed to take my change.

I hit More on the open PG. It's still giving me 10 more. The setting still says 100. 

100 is not a valid value. You should see a red outline around the box where you have typed "100", indicating that it's not valid. If you are not seeing the red outline, then this is a bug. The maximum value is 99.

Posts 1324
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 5:27 PM

99 works on the current PG (although the commentaries are not generated all at once; they are generated only as I scroll down).

However, I can't get Logos to remember 99 for future use of the PG. It always defaults to 10.

What am I missing? Why is it so counterintuitive / hard?

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PL:

99 works on the current PG (although the commentaries are not generated all at once; they are generated only as I scroll down).

However, I can't get Logos to remember 99 for future use of the PG. It always defaults to 10.

What am I missing? Why is it so counterintuitive / hard?

You will want to make changes to the guide template. See this section in the help file for details.

You can also check out this video on the subject: https://www.logos.com/logos-pro/custom-guide-templates

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 8:05 PM

Dave Hooton:
As for Saved Guides

This one from Dec 2010 originally had two commentaries in the second section. Then "more" expanded it to 12 and it was re-saved with 12

Settings still has 10 commentaries to be shown.

Dave
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Posts 2031
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Dave Hooton:

Dave Hooton:
As for Saved Guides

This one from Dec 2010 originally had two commentaries in the second section. Then "more" expanded it to 12 and it was re-saved with 12

Settings still has 10 commentaries to be shown.

That sounds correct to me. The guide is loaded with the number visible it had before. Then clicking more adds however many you have configured (10).

Posts 1324
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Feb 3 2016 11:29 PM

Hi Andrew,

The steps you provided only changed the setting on a custom PG.

How do we change the setting on the standard PG (the one that appears at the top of the Guides menu, above the custom guides)?

Thanks,

Peter

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PL:

Hi Andrew,

The steps you provided only changed the setting on a custom PG.

How do we change the setting on the standard PG (the one that appears at the top of the Guides menu, above the custom guides)?

Thanks,

Peter

Both of the links I provided talk about how to name your custom guide templates so that they override the default guide templates. Name your custom template "My Passage Guide", and it will get used by default when you open a new passage guide.

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PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2016 6:57 AM

I see now. It is working, but it is very unintuitive.

Thanks for your help and your quick response!

Peter

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2016 11:38 AM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):

Dave Hooton:

Dave Hooton:
As for Saved Guides

This one from Dec 2010 originally had two commentaries in the second section. Then "more" expanded it to 12 and it was re-saved with 12

Settings still has 10 commentaries to be shown.

That sounds correct to me. The guide is loaded with the number visible it had before. Then clicking more adds however many you have configured (10).

You miss the point - the saved guide now displays 12 commentaries when opened but it originally displayed 2. It also displays 12 in v6.8. The fact that "more" is available with 12 showing casts some doubt on the original 2.

Dave
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Dave Hooton:

You miss the point - the saved guide now displays 12 commentaries when opened but it originally displayed 2. It also displays 12 in v6.8. The fact that "more" is available with 12 showing casts some doubt on the original 2.

I think I'm still missing the point. I'm afraid I don't understand at all what you are saying the problem is.

The guide is saved with the number of items that were last displayed. This is not the same as the number of possible results unless you kept clicking more until all were visible. One way you could have saved your guide with only 2 results is to have originally run the guide, not clicked more, then deleted all but 2 of the visible results. Then when you reloaded, only 2 would be visible, but there would still be a more button.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 4 2016 3:07 PM

Andrew Batishko (Faithlife):
I think I'm still missing the point. I'm afraid I don't understand at all what you are saying the problem is.

Sorry, Andrew. I had missed your previous response "There has been no change to the behavior of saved guides..."

With respect to "the initial visibility of results" when loading a saved guide there are still some anomalies but I'm not concerned as I can fix them manually (to reflect current prioritization and the current collection).

Dave
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Windows & Android

Posts 2031
LogosEmployee

Dave Hooton:

Sorry, Andrew. I had missed your previous response "There has been no change to the behavior of saved guides..."

With respect to "the initial visibility of results" when loading a saved guide there are still some anomalies but I'm not concerned as I can fix them manually (to reflect current prioritization and the current collection).

Great, glad we're on the same page! Thanks for checking this stuff out and asking questions. It's appreciated.

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Angela Murashov | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 8 2016 12:57 PM

Eli Evans:

Dave Hooton:
These is counter-intuitive. I had expected Enter to confirm the change and "refresh" the number of commentaries,

Agree. We're looking into that.

Fixed in 6.10 Beta 2.

Updated Commentaries section to automatically refresh after changing the number of commentaries selected. 

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