Trying to search for all occurnces of a word in Hebrew and Jonah and the search is not returning all results it should be

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Ryan McDonald | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Feb 25 2010 8:47 PM

Hi All,

I'm hoping somebody can help me here. I'm trying to search all of Jonah for occurrences in any form of רִעִה the problem being I am only getting 1 result and there is more than that. I had similar problems before when searching Jonah for forms of the word great (גדל) it would return all the noun forms but skipped the verb form. So basically the question becomes is there a reason for this and a way to perform a search in the way that I want or do I need to give up and just read the entire text of Jonah hand marking occurrences to get them all.

Thank,

Ryan

P.S. know in advance that you wouldn't just be helping me but an entire class full of Hebrew students trying desperately to figure this out.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 9:11 PM

My Hebrew is in poor shape, but have you tried a morphological search yet? I found 7 occurrences in 6 verses, both nouns and verbs. Not sure if they are right, but you might try it. Here's a screen shot:

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 9:20 PM

Mark, my Hebew is in poor shape too. Two questions about your screen shot:

1) Why did you use Aramaic Morphology instead of Hebrew? (It seems to give me the same result either way, but just curious whether you did that intentionally.)

2) Why is it that using NASB95 you and I both get 7 hits but if I do the Morph search in BHS instead, I get only 1?

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Ryan McDonald | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 9:27 PM

this is part of my problem it's missing a hit well at least one(btw my hebrew is pretty bad I'm still learning so bear with me). The word also occurs for the first time in Jonah 1:2 but I think its combined with the possessive plural because it is the evil of them. Is it a bug with logos maybe? Anyhow just trying to find a way to make sure I am getting all the results I should be.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 9:29 PM

Rosie Perera:
1) Why did you use Aramaic Morphology instead of Hebrew? (It seems to give me the same result either way, but just curious whether you did that intentionally.)

Thanks for noticing that. I'd like to say it was because of genius, but actually I didn't pay attention. It must have been there from something I previously did. The A-F Hebrew morphology gets you the same results.

Rosie Perera:
2) Why is it that using NASB95 you and I both get 7 hits but if I do the Morph search in BHS instead, I get only 1?

Not sure. I believe this is the issue that the OP was having trouble with. The lemma is found by search only in 4:1. That's the single verbal form. Since I'm not sure if the other hits are actually correct I can only conjecture. The NASB is using the reverse interlinear text and those hits are tied in the text to a form of the searched word. Again, don't know if this form is what the OP was after, but using the RI somehow finds it.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 9:38 PM

I think its a bug. That lemma is the same one that comes up in the morph search the other six times. I've checked the Reverse Interlinear for the NASB and it lists the lemma correctly in 1:2, so something is wrong. If I can remember how, I'll report it.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 9:53 PM

Mark A. Smith:

I think its a bug....If I can remember how, I'll report it.

Go to http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_4_Bugs, copy the template text at the top of the page, click Create New Page, delete the default text that's there and paste the template text in, replace Short Description, fill in something for Summary of bug goes here, put in the current version you reproduced the bug in, replace Your Name with your name, and replace http://community.logos.com/forums with the URL to this thread (get it from the very top by clicking on the breadcrumb link for it at the top of the thread, in case you came here to an individual post some other way). Then click Create to post the bug.

Thanks! I'm not sure I'd be able to describe what is wrong in this bug well enough to file a bug report.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 10:16 PM

Before you responded I emailed revint@logos.com with the information and a link to this thread. Hopefully that will do it as I think it likely to be a problem at that level, not so much a bug in the software, but that is possible.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 10:18 PM

Mark A. Smith:

Before you responded I emailed revint@logos.com with the information and a link to this thread. Hopefully that will do it as I think it likely to be a problem at that level, not so much a bug in the software, but that is possible.

So then you're saying the bug is in the RevInt, in that it shouldn't show 7 hits but only 1? And the BHS is working fine in showing only 1 hit? That is puzzling, as OP's question suggests.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 25 2010 10:41 PM

Rosie Perera:
So then you're saying the bug is in the RevInt, in that it shouldn't show 7 hits but only 1?

No. The lemma that shows 1 hit is the verb in Jonah 4:1. The other six hits are nouns (the lemma, of course is somewhat different). Another occurrence of the noun appears in 1:2 but is not discovered in the morph search I posted. That is what I reported and the OP could not figure out. I believe the missing hit (how's that for an oxymoron?) might have to do with tagging in the RI. That's why I reported it there.

As to why a search for the lemma of the verb in the NASB turns up six occurrences of a closely related noun, I am clueless. Maybe that's a mistake. Maybe its a feature.

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Bridgeport, CT USA

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David Witte | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 2 2010 12:35 PM

Hello Ryan, Rosie and Mark:

I verified the NASB95 reverse interlinear data specifically for Jonah 1:2 and it is good.

When I run a search on Jonah for the lemma רע I get 9 results in 8 verses.

Note that I am using the search string "lemma:רע:5" which includes the homograph number 5.  The homograph number allows us to distinguish between Hebrew words that have the same spelling.  רע has 7 homograph numbers and so that needs to be included in a morph search.  You can view them by the entering "lemma:רע" into the search box and letting the drop down autofill show you the possibilities

or right click on the word "wickedness" in NASB95, Jonah 1:2 and the display panel will show the homograph number as well.

See http://www.logos.com/support/lbs/hebrewhomographs for an overview of homographs and http://www.logos.com/support/lbs/homographindicators for how to use them.  (Sorry, It has not been upgraded to a Logos4 example ... coming soon)

Dave

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