New Feature: Discourse Datasets and Visual Filters (Dataset)

What is it?

Logos' Discourse Datasets and Visual Filters represent the culmination of years of study on discourse features and devices, which speakers and writers of all languages use to convey meaning. The datasets and visual filters constitute a complete discourse analysis of the whole Bible, constructed with graphical representations for numerous communicative devices throughout the Hebrew Old Testament and Greek New Testament. The datasets are searchable, so you can find every occurrence of direct address in the Old or New Testaments. And with the use of our reverse interlinear data, you can use the Discourse features visual filters to view these annotations in several different English, Greek, or Hebrew bibles.

How does it work?

Open any of your Bibles with a reverse interlinear. Navigate to the visual filters icon. From here, you can enable the Discourse Features (Greek) or Discourse Features (Hebrew) visual filters as a whole, or you can individually select the feature you want exposed in your English translation (or Greek and Hebrew texts).*

You can also search the dataset. The syntax for this search for the Greek dataset is <LDGNT = Overspecification> in the basic search. To search the Hebrew dataset use <LDHB = Overspecification>.

The easiest way to search this dataset, however, is to have the visual filters enabled, locate the feature you want to investigate further, right click on any of the words tagged with the feature you're investigating, and select that option from the context menu to search. Logos will automatically generate the search syntax for you.

* Please note that the discourse dataset was developed for the NA28 and the SBLGNT. Accordingly, if you enable the visual filters on a Byzantine Greek text or translation heavily dependent on the Byzantine textual tradition (e.g. KJV), there may be significant discrepancies between the data within this dataset and the text itself.

Where can I learn more?

Watch this feature in action here: https://logos.wistia.com/medias/q4kqk0jfvh

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Comments

James Taylor

Open any of your Bibles with a reverse interlinear. Navigate to the visual filters icon. From here, you can enable the Discourse Features (Greek) or Discourse Features (Hebrew) visual filters as a whole, or you can individually select the feature you want exposed in your English translation (or Greek and Hebrew texts).*

Definitely do not see this yet. I am a Now subscriber, running 6.12 Beta 2

Jacob Cerone

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819449#Comment_819449

Definitely do not see this yet. I am a Now subscriber, running 6.12 Beta 2

If you're not seeing it, I may have jumped the proverbial gun on the post. Be patient and I suspect that you will see it by tomorrow. In the meantime, I will check to see if the license has been issued.

James Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819450#Comment_819450

Be patient and I suspect that you will see it by tomorrow. In the meantime, I will check to see if the license has been issued.

Ok, I'll check back. thanks Jacob. Just to clarify on this dataset, is this basically the data we'd already have if we own Runge's discourse resources (HDNT, LDGNT, LDHB etc.) but we'd be gaining the ability to search this data as well as filter it on to any Bible with a reverse interlinear?

Jacob Cerone

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819451#Comment_819451

Ok, I'll check back. thanks Jacob. Just to clarify on this dataset, is this basically the data we'd already have if we own Runge's discourse resources (HDNT, LDGNT, LDHB etc.) but we'd be gaining the ability to search this data as well as filter it on to any Bible with a reverse interlinear?

Correct—though not just the New Testament but also the Old Testament.

James Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819452#Comment_819452

also the Old Testament.

Yes, owners of Lexham Discourse Hebrew Bible have already had access to that as well.

But this could now be filtered across English Bibles too

Ryan Robinson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819453#Comment_819453

This is awesome.

James Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819502#Comment_819502

This is awesome.

Are you seeing this already, or just saying its (going to be) awesome (when it gets here)?

Ryan Robinson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819502#Comment_819502

This is awesome.

Correct: will be awesome. [;)]

James Taylor

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819506#Comment_819506

Ok, just making sure I wasn't having a bug or something :-)

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819450#Comment_819450

Definitely do not see this yet. I am a Now subscriber, running 6.12 Beta 2

If you're not seeing it, I may have jumped the proverbial gun on the post. Be patient and I suspect that you will see it by tomorrow. In the meantime, I will check to see if the license has been issued.

We're hoping to upload the new datasets sometime today (Tuesday, May 3, 2016).

Thanks!

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819528#Comment_819528

We're hoping to upload the new datasets sometime today (Tuesday, May 3, 2016).

I'm told these have been uploaded, so they should soon be available for Logos Now users.

We'd love if y'all on 6.12 beta 2 could specifically poke at:

The visual filter menu in the resource panel. Try selecting/unselecting combinations of features for display.
Different reverse interlinear resources using the visual filters
Searching via right-click.
Searching using the <LDHB = ...> and <LDGNT = ....> syntax (and/or using ~ instead of = ).

Thanks!

Ryan Robinson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819553#Comment_819553

Will this still work if you are on 6.11?

Jacob Cerone

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819563#Comment_819563

Ryan,

If I'm not mistaken, the dataset itself (i.e. running searches from the context menu) should work. The visual filters aspect, however, will be in 6.12.

Lawrence Rafferty

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819563#Comment_819563

Will this still work if you are on 6.11?

The visual filters are only available starting in 6.12, which will be available to non-Beta testers in a few weeks. However, Logos Now subscribers running 6.11 will get the datasets now. You can use them to search by using syntax like {Section <LDGNT = Overspecification>}, whereas in 6.12 you can just use <LDGNT = Overspecification>. There are two known issues with the context menu in 6.11:

the search syntax generated by the context menu will not include the {Section ...} syntax, so the searches won't work in 6.11 unless you manually fix the search syntax
the context menu will usually show two LDGNT entries for words in the New Testament. This is fixed in 6.12.

John Kight

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819452#Comment_819452

Ok, I'll check back. thanks Jacob. Just to clarify on this dataset, is this basically the data we'd already have if we own Runge's discourse resources (HDNT, LDGNT, LDHB etc.) but we'd be gaining the ability to search this data as well as filter it on to any Bible with a reverse interlinear?

Correct—though not just the New Testament but also the Old Testament.

Great! So, we don't need to purchase Runge's discourse resources (HDNT, LDGNT, LDHB etc.) to use this feature?

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819588#Comment_819588

Great! So, we don't need to purchase Runge's discourse resources (HDNT, LDGNT, LDHB etc.) to use this feature?

If you're a subscriber to Logos Now, you don't need to purchase those resources. When 6.12 goes stable, I'm told there will be information made available regarding if and how someone who is not a Logos Now subscriber could obtain these datasets.

John Kight

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819611#Comment_819611

If you're a subscriber to Logos Now

Thanks Rick! Logos Now just keeps getting better and better!!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819611#Comment_819611

Great! So, we don't need to purchase Runge's discourse resources (HDNT, LDGNT, LDHB etc.) to use this feature?

If you're a subscriber to Logos Now, you don't need to purchase those resources.

But will Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament Glossary be made available to Now subscribers?

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819644#Comment_819644

Logos Now just keeps getting better and better!!

[Y]

Myke Harbuck

This is awesome!

One request....the VF menu is getting longer and longer, esp if you are someone like me with LOTS of VFs, highlighting notes, etc. As such, would you guys consider 2 VF menus, one for Resource and Discourse features, and the other for our personal VFs (VF documents, highlighting notes, etc). I think this would make the menu much cleaner. I don't see any reason why there couldn't be two VF buttons at the top of a resource, esp given how little landscape space they consume on the resource bar.

Just a thought.

Thanks!

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819694#Comment_819694

I'd prefer a single menu with all expandable units closed by default ... I agree with your diagnosis of the problem.

delete12066188

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819674#Comment_819674

Dave it just downloadet today

Mark Barnes

Thanks for this new feature.

This leads to another request (or a repeat of an earlier request), which is to make it possible for different visual filters to be placed on the same resource (so in one panel I could have a high-definition NIV, and in another panel I could have a 'normal' NIV with all my highlighting, etc.)

The way multiview is handled is perfect. There, multiview selections are saved with shortcuts/layouts, so I can quickly switch between different multiview configurations. The more visual filters you create, the more we need something similar for visual filters.

Jonathan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819725#Comment_819725

Thanks for this new feature.

This leads to another request (or a repeat of an earlier request), which is to make it possible for different visual filters to be placed on the same resource (so in one panel I could have a high-definition NIV, and in another panel I could have a 'normal' NIV with all my highlighting, etc.)

The way multiview is handled is perfect. There, multiview selections are saved with shortcuts/layouts, so I can quickly switch between different multiview configurations. The more visual filters you create, the more we need something similar for visual filters.

[Y]

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819652#Comment_819652

But will Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament Glossary be made available to Now subscribers?

My understanding is that both the LDHB and LDGNT Glossaries will be made available in Logos Now too.

Ryan Gano (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819567#Comment_819567

the search syntax generated by the context menu will not include the {Section ...} syntax, so the searches won't work in 6.11 unless you manually fix the search syntax

the context menu will usually show two LDGNT entries for words in the New Testament. This is fixed in 6.12.

Both of these issues have been fixed with 6.11 SR-2

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819765#Comment_819765

My understanding is that both the LDHB and LDGNT Glossaries will be made available in Logos Now too.

thanks, Rick.

AH Bogaards

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819809#Comment_819809

Where can I get:

1. a manual or a short manual/ explanation on this Discourse Datasets and Visual Filters (Dataset)

2. a video on how it works

I have Logos Now and it will be nice to have a in ditto explanation in manual and video on how I can use it.

The videos and explanation of Logos is very nice and important.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819891#Comment_819891

Where can I get:

1. a manual or a short manual/ explanation on this Discourse Datasets and Visual Filters (Dataset)

2. a video on how it works

The Discourse visual filters are in beta during the 6.12 cycle; at the end of the beta cycle the material should become available. Access to the LDGNT and LDHB introductions and glossaries should happen, I'd guess, in the next week.

Adam Olean

So, for users who already own the rather expensive discourse databases and also subscribe to Logos Now, if I understand correctly, the only value in owning databases would be the permanent license rather than a temporary license (i.e., for LDHB, LDGNT, LHDOT, LHDNT)? Until fairly recently LDGNT was, in my evaluation, a useful but significantly unfinished beta product (with respect to widespread typos, omissions, and errors), although thankfully it's now improving significantly, especially since updates from around late 2015 and early 2016. That said, I wouldn't have invested in them if I didn't value them. I recall the Greek New Testament Discourse Bundle being a good value.

These new discourse visual filters and improved search databases look like an excellent and natural extension of the work that's been done on the discourse resources. I've always thought that Propositional Outlines would work well with some of the discourse-device symbols such as Topical Frames and Emphasis (e.g., for marked focal constituents). The Propositional Outlines really build on and extend the analysis of LDGNT and LDHB, but I think I'd prefer if they labeled devices such as simple Topical Frames with some of these symbols rather than placing them on their own line and thus separating them from their larger propositional and prosodic units/groupings. I don't think this facilitates fluent, uninterrupted reading. Anyway, I look forward to seeing how these different visual filters interact and complement one another.

Thanks to everyone involved in these projects! Keep up the good work!

Mike McKnelly

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819611#Comment_819611

I purchased the HDNT and the HDOT a year ago for over 200 dollars now i'm getting those resources free as a feature of Logos now. can I get a credit for my past purchase?

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/823002#Comment_823002

I purchased the HDNT and the HDOT a year ago for over 200 dollars now i'm getting those resources free as a feature of Logos now. can I get a credit for my past purchase?

Hi Mike.

The High Definition NT (https://www.logos.com/product/3832/lexham-high-definition-new-testament-esv-edition ) and High Definition OT (https://www.logos.com/product/6831/lexham-high-definition-old-testament ) are not included in Logos Now. In Logos Now, we have only included data underlying LDGNT and LDHB and the glossary and introduction.

There is also the difference of having access to material through a subscription (Logos Now) and owning the material outside of a subscription. That said, if you want to speak with someone further, I'd encourage you to contact Faithlife customer service and interact with someone there regarding this issue.

delete12066188

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/819674#Comment_819674

It works also with Luther 1984 in German :-)