"Two Corinthians" or "Second Corinthians"?
I've just discovered the alleged Trump blooper about "Two Corinthians", and I'm confused.
Obviously, "Second Corinthians" is a valid way of refering to that book, but is "Two Corinthians" really wrong? I always say Two Corinthians, One John, One Kings etc. I'm pretty sure I picked that pronunciation up in the UK.
Researching the correct pronunciation is not straightforward. Google comes up with pages and pages of search results of people laughing their heads off about the Trump incident, and claiming that "every Christian says Second Corinthians".
So is "Two Corinthians" actually a valid pronunciation or not...?
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Jan Krohn said:
So is "Two Corinthians" actually a valid pronunciation or not...?
"Two Corinthians" is the most common way of saying it in the UK.
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Yes, epistles names are usually 1st, 2nd, 3rd (3rd John) in the US and Canada but 1, 2, 3 in the UK (Three John).
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Fwiw, in Montana, I have always pronounced it First, Second, Third, not one, two three. I don't think it matters at all.
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I disagree with Everett (smilingly).
These type of vocabularies are essential to who's a part of the team, and who is not. It's so predictable, it's fun.
One Sunday, I was on my way to Utah, and stopped at a small church my Dad preached at when I was small. I knew their vocabulary. So, I alterred mine a hair, to see if they'd catch it. Bingo. Then I switched back. Confusion on their faces. My impression is that in/out is the initial and critical question.
I guess I couldn't resist. I told them I was driving up to St George to get a book at the Zion bookstore. That merited rightious frowns. So a brother tossed back a test comment on Navajo women being in charge. Touche!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I guess culturally there may be an issue, but academically, I don't see a difference either way.
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Jan, you have stumbled upon one of my pet peeves. As someone born and raised in the USA it bothers me when my countrymen are so unaware of the global church then presume to be experts. Many of my very close friends are in this camp of ethno-centric thinkers who I believe are going to be VERY surprised at the diversity in heaven. There are plenty of things I disagree with Donald Trump, but his citation of a biblical book is not a speck of dust that I am willing to strain after.
I could really mess with them if I started referring to Corinthians A and Corinthians B (as in my Greek Testament)
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I've heard it both ways (even here in Texas!). It's never really bothered me. I'm just glad they're talking about God's Word!
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David Thomas said:
I could really mess with them if I started referring to Corinthians A and Corinthians B
Shouldn't that be Corinthians Alpha and Corinthians Beta? [:P]
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I've always known it as the second epistle to the Corinthians whilst reading from it in church, and two Corinthians when referring to it outside [:)]
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How about:
Corinthians Episode I-The Phantom Paul
Corinthians Episode II-Revenge Of The Pharisees
[:P]
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I really find it difficult to care about this one. As long as you know where to turn in the Book, what does it matter? (Of course, I never was able to get truly OCD about Turabian vs. APA vs. MLA ... etc., so maybe I'm not the best person to opine.)
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Thanks Jan, for posting this question. Although I don't find this a very important matter, and easily heard and understand each of the conventions (except perhaps Episode-1 Episode-2. Never heard that one, and would easily be confused on it. [:)] ), I am learning something new here, such as, I was not aware that it is geography specific (as Mark and Francis has stated).
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I would also add that First Corinthians is really Second Corinthians and Second Corinthians is really Fourth Corinthians:
Although the New Testament contains only two letters to the Corinthians, the evidence from the letters themselves is that he wrote at least four:
- 1 Cor 5:9 ("I have written you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people", NIV) refers to an early letter, sometimes called the "warning letter".
- 1 Corinthians
- The Severe Letter. Paul refers to an earlier "letter of tears" in 2 Corinthians 2:3–4 and 7:8. 1 Corinthiansdoes not match that description; so this "letter of tears" may have been written between 1 Corinthians and 2 Corinthians.
- 2 Corinthians
Guthrie, Donald. New Testament Introduction. 4th rev. ed. The Master Reference Collection. Downers Grove, IL: Inter-Varsity Press, 1996.
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In Chinese, they are referred to as 'former' Corinthians (哥 林 多 前 書) and 'latter' Corinthians (哥 林 多 後 書).
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Every country has their weird way of saying things, but two Corinthians, really? Come on! You're kidding right? Saying "two Corinthians" sounds like you're referring to two Corinthians chicks or guys, kinda like nationality or something. Weird but have heard weirder hehe
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Mark Barnes said:Jan Krohn said:
So is "Two Corinthians" actually a valid pronunciation or not...?
"Two Corinthians" is the most common way of saying it in the UK.
I had no idea that Trump was British!
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We are getting uncomfortably close to political..........
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Jan Krohn said:
So is "Two Corinthians" actually a valid pronunciation or not...?
Yes. (as others have noted)
Friedrich said:I had no idea that Trump was British!
His mother, Mary MacLeod Trump, was Scottish so he may be eligible for UK citizenship by registration. http://www.bustle.com/articles/119550-who-is-donald-trumps-mother-mary-macleod-trump-has-such-an-interesting-backstory
More to the point of this thread it is likely that from his mother he became familiar with many British English idioms. In this case I believe that he has already stated he misspoke given the audience, making no appeal to having learned another idiom but instead pleading ignorance.
Matthew C Jones said:We are getting uncomfortably close to political..........
Unfortunately the attention given to this in its political context leads to many passing judgment in regard to Trump's faith.
Denise said:These type of vocabularies are essential to who's a part of the team, and who is not. It's so predictable, it's fun.
You've hit the nail right on the head.
"The Christian mind is the prerequisite of Christian thinking. And Christian thinking is the prerequisite of Christian action." - Harry Blamires, 1963
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Francis said:
Yes, epistles names are usually 1st, 2nd, 3rd (3rd John) in the US and Canada but 1, 2, 3 in the UK (Three John).
Intriguing - I'm in the UK but would use (and would be used to people using) First, Second, etc....[:)]
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Graham Criddle said:Francis said:
Yes, epistles names are usually 1st, 2nd, 3rd (3rd John) in the US and Canada but 1, 2, 3 in the UK (Three John).
Intriguing - I'm in the UK but would use (and would be used to people using) First, Second, etc....
It is intriguing but I do know others from the UK that would say the same. I also know others from North America would use 1, 2, 3. Personally I use 1st, 2nd and 3rd.
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Of course, people in the UK read books from the US and vice-versa and there are in each country a number of scholars, ministers, and former students from the other country. I'm sure usage cross-pollinates. But whatever be the case, I believe we have answered the initial question: either one goes although one usage may surprise in circles in which the other is clearly the norm.
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Certain parts of South East Asia are using "Two Corinthians"
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'Second Corinthians' would be standard in Scotland and Northern Ireland. 'Two Corinthians' in (parts of) England and Wales.
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Asked an English woman yesterday, she told me she uses both.
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I have heard a few Afro-American pastors in the south say, "one-eye John," "two-eye John," and "three-eye John." [:D]
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I've also heard alistair begg preach fro the Sams (you know, Sam 137, etc)
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