IVP OR Zondervan

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This post has 11 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 2377
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 4:07 AM

Keep in mind that they are very different resources.  I would point out first that the 2 volume IVP upgrade volume is already included in the 8 volume set, so that does take the price down some if you were thinking you needed both.  They offer the two volume set for those who had gotten the previous collections that were recently pulled, which did not have those two newer volumes.

The IVP dictionaries are exactly that, dictionaries; whereas, the Zondervan volumes are verse by verse (not necessarily every verse) commentaries that focus on background with lots of pictures and sidebars.  If you have the IVP Bible Background commentaries then it would be like that, only with pictures and more commentary.  The IVP dictionaries have long scholarly articles about many subjects including background information.  I would normally say to go for the IVP dictionaries, but since the Zondervan volumes are on sale, it would make that a little harder.  I have never seen them on sale before.

If you have enough regular scholarly commentary sets (which would cover the same information as the Zondervan sets) and limited finances, then I would go with the IVP dictionaries.  If you plan to get both eventually, then I might get the Zondervan set now because of the great sale.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 3358
Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 4:33 AM

Thanks Joseph...also to point this out with the Update. Thought it would be a new one.

from what you say I would go for the IVP than

Posts 2002
mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 5:27 AM

The first one would be my choice. I've been using the ZIBBC for few days and unless you're into pictures, the commentary itself is just below average, not great

Posts 1360
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 5:27 AM

Joseph Turner:

Keep in mind that they are very different resources.  I would point out first that the 2 volume IVP upgrade volume is already included in the 8 volume set, so that does take the price down some if you were thinking you needed both.  They offer the two volume set for those who had gotten the previous collections that were recently pulled, which did not have those two newer volumes.

The IVP dictionaries are exactly that, dictionaries; whereas, the Zondervan volumes are verse by verse (not necessarily every verse) commentaries that focus on background with lots of pictures and sidebars.  If you have the IVP Bible Background commentaries then it would be like that, only with pictures and more commentary.  The IVP dictionaries have long scholarly articles about many subjects including background information.  I would normally say to go for the IVP dictionaries, but since the Zondervan volumes are on sale, it would make that a little harder.  I have never seen them on sale before.

If you have enough regular scholarly commentary sets (which would cover the same information as the Zondervan sets) and limited finances, then I would go with the IVP dictionaries.  If you plan to get both eventually, then I might get the Zondervan set now because of the great sale.

I agree. The IVP Dictionary set is the most highly recommended extra for Logos users. Unique material. Thorough.

Posts 1733
Forum MVP
Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 5:57 AM

I use the IVP for the background facts and Zondervan to get the feeling of the context.

Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11

Posts 719
Gordon Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 1:57 PM

Hi Sascha,

Others have already explained that one is a dictionary and the other is commentary. The dictionary series is high quality and academic, and the commentary is a good quality series aimed at a popular market and therefore lacks depth.

My suggestion, however, is that you order both, try them out for a few weeks and then return whichever one proves to be less useful to you. Logos has an excellent 30 day money-back promise (www.logos.com/support/return).

I hope that this is helpful and I wish you every blessing in your Bible studies!

Posts 1014
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 2:28 PM

Sascha John,

Doesn't the first IVP link already contain the upgrade (second IVP link)?  I think the 2 volume upgrade is for those that have the smaller OT set.

EDIT:  Also, note that the regular price for the 8 vol. IVP dictionary set and Zondervan are nearly identical (USD).

Posts 9005
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 5:07 PM

IVP all the way! I'm trying out ZIBBC OT/NT and so far I'm not impressed. I may even return them before the 30 trial period to get my money back. I had to give them the benefit of a doubt to have a fair view  of them.

DAL

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 25 2016 5:19 PM

For me the IVP always felt more useful...

ECCLESIASTES

1:1. “son” of David. The term “son” can signify either a political relationship or kinship (any male descendant can be called a son). In this context it associates the Teacher with one of David’s royal descendants, Solomon being the most obvious candidate that comes to mind.

1:2. meaningless. As early as Sumerian literature and throughout the traditions of the ancient Near East the meaninglessness of existence, and particularly of the human plight, had been recognized: from the days of old there has been vanity (wind).

1:9. nothing new under the sun. From Assyrian royal inscriptions it appears that the kings were constantly seeking out accomplishments so they could boast they had done something that had never been done or achieved before. The king could thereby include himself among the “creators” or “founders”—ones who had established precedents. Such accomplishments included quest or conquest; building of a road, palace, temple or city; or the introduction of a new technique or celebration.

1:13. role of the sage. Sages seem to have comprised a different guild from the scribes, though their exact function and nature is obscure. They were certainly teachers, but whether they had formal training or taught formally is unknown. Sages were known in other ancient Near Eastern cultures and were sometimes counselors to royalty. For more information see comment on Proverbs 1:1.

John H. Walton, Victor H. Matthews, and Mark W. Chavalas, The IVP Bible Background Commentary: Old Testament, Accordance electronic ed. (Downers Grove: InterVarsity Press, 2000), 570-571.

Below is Zondervan of course the photos, 2 from this section are not pasted here, also this is taken from Olivetree where I own them so that is why there is no citation.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________
Meaningless (1:1). The theme of futility is found in numerous literary pieces in the second millennium b. c. It is expressed in Gilgamesh’s affirmation that whatever humankind does is “wind.” The same word used by Gilgamesh is used elsewhere to describe the way the world was regulated by the gods. The theme is worked out by discussing how all of the great deeds of the heroes of old amounted to nothing. Ecclesiastes uses a term that signifies “a mere breath.”
In Sumerian literature the theme of meaninglessness is also found in a work entitled Nin- nam nukal (“Nothing Is of Value”) in a number of extant versions with roots in the early second millennium. It begins, “Nothing is of value, but life itself should be sweet- tasting.” It has lines like “even the tallest one cannot reach to the sky; even the broadest one cannot go down to the netherworld,” and “Let the ‘race’ be spent in joy.” And like the Gilgamesh Epic this work states:“Death is the share of man; the consequences of his destiny, no man can escape them.” This demonstrates that these philosophical concepts occurred early in Mesopotamian history.
The wind blows (1:6). Ecclesiastes opens with a general statement that all the activity observed in the world is apparently to no effect and that there is nothing new under the sun (1:2 – 11). The monotony of the cycles of nature is a metaphor for the failure of human activity to accomplish anything as each generation arises and then goes to its death. This sentiment appears in the Egyptian Harpers’ Songs as well:“Water flows downstream, the north wind blows upstream, and likewise everybody goes to his hour.”
All things are wearisome, more than one can say (1:8). Verse 8a could be translated more literally, “All things are weary; no one is able to speak.” This sentiment, that there is nothing new to report and no new maxims to give, strongly echoes an Egyptian text composed in the Middle Kingdom (ca. 2055 – 1650 b. c.), The Complaints of Khakheperrē- sonb. In this text, the sage laments:
Would I had unknown phrases,
Maxims that are strange,
Novel untried words,
Void of repetitions;
Not maxims of past speech,
Spoken by the ancestors.
He further insists that “one who has spoken should not speak” in a manner reminiscent of Ecclesiastes’ claim that no one is able to speak. For Khakheperrē- sonb, as for Ecclesiastes 1:9 – 10, all that people do under the sun is a mere “imitation of the past.”
No remembrance of men of old (1:11). This outlook rejects what seems to have been an obsession with ancient Near Eastern monarchs, the desire to create eternal monuments that would preserve their names through all generations. Of course, any educated Israelite would have known of the great stone inscriptions of Egyptian pharaohs. Perhaps the futility of this quest was already evident. There had already been examples of Egyptian monuments being buried in the sands, and not a few pharaohs had simply chiseled out the names of predecessors, as Thutmose III had done with many of Hatshepsut’s inscriptions. An Egyptian text known as “Berlin Papyrus 3024” laments that those “who build in granite and who hew out chambers in pyramids” are soon forgotten.

-Dan

Posts 1589
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 26 2016 8:02 PM

DAL:

IVP all the way! I'm trying out ZIBBC OT/NT and so far I'm not impressed. I may even return them before the 30 trial period to get my money back. I had to give them the benefit of a doubt to have a fair view  of them.

DAL

I'm trying out the ZIBBC OT/NT as well and am also leaning in the direction of a return.  They do have more material than the IVP Bible Background Commentaries that I already have (and of course there are the graphics), but for me, the textual material doesn't flow as naturally as in the IVPs; and while it is nice to have the graphics, again, for me they tend to interfere with the flow of the main textual material.  Even so, the Zondervan set does sometimes have a nugget of helpful info missing in the IVPs.  At this point, it may largely be a matter of evaluating the worth of the graphics. 

I'd be interested in knowing which way you finally go and what tipped the balance.

NOTE:  I realize the OP was in regard to the IVP Dictionaries vs the IVP Background Commentaries which I'm comparing with the Zondervan set, but even so, I find myself leaning slightly in the direction of returning the Zondervan Background set.

Posts 3358
Sascha John | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 26 2016 8:41 PM

thanks you helped me a Lot :-)

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