End of Community Pricing?

Page 3 of 3 (59 items) < Previous 1 2 3
This post has 58 Replies | 3 Followers

Posts 8
Kevin Clarke, Ph.D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2016 11:26 PM

Agreed. This one too: https://www.logos.com/product/28903/patrologiae-cursus-completus-series-graeca

Sometimes Evangelicals get a bad rap as not being interested in the Church Fathers, but I know that's not true. Logos users need to place their bids on the Migne texts, for the good of all Christian scholarship.

This project is going to reap big rewards for Logos once it's done, but the lack of bids seems to be stalling it. Such a pity.

Posts 301
Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 6:17 AM

This has been a very interesting discussion.  In the active forum community, I'm probably a fairly "light" user:  not many posts and only 4,006 non-Perseus resources.  But I do have a M.A. in Theology from a Catholic seminary.  I use the Verbum daily for my own study.  It seems that Faithlife/Logos/Verbum has lost its focus.  Verbum is the ignored step child.  I just want the best books and a high quality program to utilize these books (excuse me, "resources.")  

The whole concept of Logos/Verbum "Now" kinda irks me:  so after I spend $20,000 on "resources" I still need to spend another $9 a month to get a program to get the best features to utilize these "resources."  No thank you, Bob. 

Posts 1125
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 6:57 AM

Hapax Legomena:

...  I just want the best books and a high quality program to utilize these books (excuse me, "resources.")  

Amen to that.

Posts 1125
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 7:03 AM

Kevin Clarke:

Agreed. This one too: https://www.logos.com/product/28903/patrologiae-cursus-completus-series-graeca

Sometimes Evangelicals get a bad rap as not being interested in the Church Fathers, but I know that's not true. Logos users need to place their bids on the Migne texts, for the good of all Christian scholarship.

This project is going to reap big rewards for Logos once it's done, but the lack of bids seems to be stalling it. Such a pity.

I suspect there are at least two reasons that this one is languishing:

  1. The price is substantial;
  2. The potential audience is limited to those with the language skills to make full use of it.

This isn't something that your typical layperson - even a layperson who had a year or so of Greek at some point, or perhaps some high-school Latin - is likely to buy. (I suspect there are also many full-time ministers who wouldn't be able to get their money's worth out of it.)

Posts 8
Kevin Clarke, Ph.D. | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 8:04 AM

Of course laypersons are not going to bid on that. That is a given. However, the price is not really substantial. $250 for hundreds of volumes. Also, $250 for more than 200 Latin volumes (and with so much text to digitize, there's no way Logos will be collecting that money from you in the next three or four years). Those are steals for academics interested in Christian antiquity. Imagine how much your Greek can improve over a few years.

The idea that there are not enough academics on Logos to get these volumes up and running makes me wonder if they really are doing well with this target audience. 

Perhaps they can apply for some grant monies to help make these volumes available. 

In the meanwhile, trust me, it's worth it. Place your bids! :)

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 8:44 AM

Kevin, if you wish to push that resource, you need a separate thread with a clear title. Then you have to sell it over a 2-3 year period, popping your thread to catch newer Logosians and remind oldies.

But that said, Logos is basically 3rd-4th year Bible college or seminary. The market doesn't extend much further than that.  They graduate, do churchy stuff and do a library.  Few academics. Quite a few 'laypersons'.

Surprisingly, Bob supports a fairly sophisticated academic staff ... but their theology rattles the evangelical cage.  Logos has its margins.

Proven loosers in Logos: anything latin that cost money, any translations by Logos, anything not compatable with Moody (eg Ehrrman), and any Christianity outside of the Catholic/Protestant axis. Africa, Asia, and South America are 'mission fields'.  They're not going to happen.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 8:58 AM

Kevin Clarke:
The idea that there are not enough academics on Logos to get these volumes up and running makes me wonder if they really are doing well with this target audience. 

There are features and resources that make me think this is an important market for Faithlife, but at the same time the solution is not complete - holes exist in tools and resources for this market. Faithlife's strategies are more opportunistic than refining and completing the offering (look at the stops and starts on Logos being a regular source of periodicals, a critical part of academic research, and an approach that is far from timely; academic types will need other sources for periodicals and then they won't purchase them twice - leaving Faithlife out in the cold).

Beyond some of the evangelical markets, for other markets the list of required resources is far from complete. It's a chicken and egg issue, the resources and tools won't come if the market doesn't buy, but the market won't buy because the commitment does not seem to be there. An example is the Catholic world with the direction they were going with Fr. Roza under the Verbum label - it was an exciting approach with unified training, resources and focused tools for the Catholic-oriented ecclesiastic and research world. Then in the layoffs came - and most of it appears to be gone, and many of the resources pulled, probably for good. This was probably necessary as penetration into that market wasn't going to come through prepub and community pricing approaches - something different was needed.

Your suggestion on grant monies is an interesting one - if Faithlife truly wants to be a major player in universities, seminaries, and among authors, theologians, professors - and to see their platform as the go to standard for students and researchers, something more than opportunistic prepub and community pricing is needed.  Investment is needed, but Faithlife investment is not so evident in the Logos/Verbum market as it is in the many other things Faithlife does. (Look at Bob's posts - the last time he posted in Logos 6 or the Logos 6 beta forum was February - yet frequent posts in other areas. I would be very worried if the boss showed great interest in areas other than mine Big Smile).

Posts 1125
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 9:28 AM

Denise:

But that said, Logos is basically 3rd-4th year Bible college or seminary. The market doesn't extend much further than that.  They graduate, do churchy stuff and do a library.  Few academics. Quite a few 'laypersons'.

And that's not a bad place for them to be, as a business.  There are a lot more students, working ministers, and average Christians with a desire to learn more about the Word, than there are professional academics. 

Posts 34439
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 1:37 PM

EastTN:
There are a lot more students, working ministers, and average Christians with a desire to learn more about the Word, than there are professional academics. 

However, their "average Christian" tools are lacking as well as the high end academic tools - at least if you consider a broad swath of denominations. And few of the common/popular methods of Bible study are explicitly supported although most of the pieces to support them are in Logos.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 1125
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 3:56 PM

MJ. Smith:

EastTN:
There are a lot more students, working ministers, and average Christians with a desire to learn more about the Word, than there are professional academics. 

However, their "average Christian" tools are lacking as well as the high end academic tools - at least if you consider a broad swath of denominations. And few of the common/popular methods of Bible study are explicitly supported although most of the pieces to support them are in Logos.

I don't disagree with that! 

Posts 690
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jul 11 2016 8:19 PM

When I suggested the "end" of community pricing, my original observation had to do with how-compared to the old days--very few titles are now receiving bids to get into production.

Here's a second observation: Very few new titles are being added. For example, my RSS feed, the LEB audio Old Testament has been at the top of my feed for what seems like months.

Posts 679
Stephen Steele | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 14 2016 4:53 AM

Ted Weis:

Here's a second observation: Very few new titles are being added. For example, my RSS feed, the LEB audio Old Testament has been at the top of my feed for what seems like months.

5 months later, nothing new has been added.

Maybe this really is the end of community pricing?

Posts 3317
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 14 2016 5:16 AM

They need to revamp CP- use it to bring new resources on line by covering their cost - Mobile Ed would benefit greatly form this- I do not buy any these resources for the simple fact way over priced.

CP would bring me in as a buyer.

NEW books or collections would also bring some us "large" (15k plus) library users (who have not got free resources from FL, but bought them) back in as buyers.

Posts 1125
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 14 2016 6:52 AM

Stephen Steele:

5 months later, nothing new has been added.

Maybe this really is the end of community pricing?

Let's hope not. It has brought a number of valuable older works into my library.  Perhaps it would be helpful if FaithLife could tweak what they're offering a bit based on past experience. It seems to me that older works in relatively small collections, or in single volumes, have had some of the best luck. My guess is that if the price point is between $10-$30 or so, it makes it easier for many of us to go ahead and bid on something that sounds interesting.

Posts 405
Vincent Chia | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 14 2016 11:33 PM

It's already the end of 2016. Still not a single new CP product in view. Hmmm ... ...

So is this the end of community pricing? Not lucrative, I suppose.

Director

Elyon Family Clinic & Surgery Pte Ltd

Singapore

Posts 2793
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2016 3:48 PM

FL seems to have a very full plate. Not a little expansion over the past few years. I'd really like them to get what's important pushed through, not just in CP. I'm chomping for the EEC. But I think we are best off praying for FL to redeem the time in whatever manner glorifies God.

I'm glad the English Bible set is finally coming through. Praise the Lord!

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 5321
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2016 4:12 PM

One good reason for a slow down is to give the ones there a chance to get past the post rather than getting buried under an avalanche of new ones. Second there are a limited number of older books. Before FL decides to offer them I believe they need to find several clean copies... Now of the most popular books yes this is easy but of more obscure works it might be hard. We  have for example Lange... it is a wonderful work that provides value even today.... but let us guess there were two other released the same time frame.. They sold poor were considered less than ideal. Would it make sense for FL to pursue them just because they could, i certainly doubt that. I already question the value of a few classic volumes. I personally am happy to focus on getting some of the ones that need a little more love like:

The Catholic Encyclopedia (17 vols.)

The Speaker's Commentary (13 vols.)

-Dan

Posts 34439
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2016 4:33 PM

Also remember they canceled a number of slow moving ones so I suspect they are managing overhead by having a limit on the number listed at one time.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 5751
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 16 2016 7:12 PM

MJ. Smith:

Also remember they canceled a number of slow moving ones so I suspect they are managing overhead by having a limit on the number listed at one time.

They cancelled a bunch of Pre-Pubs.

When did they announce that they cancelled a bunch of CPs? I have never noticed this.

“Whoever looks upon the Crucified One sees what love is.” — Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger

Page 3 of 3 (59 items) < Previous 1 2 3 | RSS