Curious E-Mail from Faithlife

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This post has 24 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 1011
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Jul 6 2016 4:32 PM

I just got a very curious e-mail from promotions at logosmail dot com.  The e-mail starts out:

"Dear Steve,

Our records indicate that you purchased Logos Bible Software in July of 2014.

Your license allows you to reinstall Logos when you get a new computer. The up-to-date software is easy to download at no charge, even if you originally used a CD-ROM or DVD-ROM.

You own hundreds of library resources in addition to your software. All of these books will be automatically loaded on your present computer after you reinstall the software ..."

What?

I haven't purchased a new computer since before that, and I have kept current on every release since I started in 2011.

Has anyone else received this non-sensical e-mail? 

Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2016 5:39 PM

I got it too - very odd. I almost wondered if it was a phishing email for a little bit.

Posts 737
JH | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2016 5:43 PM

I received the same thing. Very odd...

Posts 157
Willie | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2016 6:45 PM

I also received the same message and was equally perplexed.

Posts 2209
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2016 8:11 PM

Steve (and others), I'm sorry for the confusion. Thanks for letting us know. This email was supposed to go to inactive customers who purchased a base package but haven't used it in a while. We continue to hear from people who bought Logos years ago and lost the CD-ROM or DVD-ROM and think we've lost access to the software and their resources. They're surprised and delighted to know that they can download the current free engine and get access to all of their resources at no charge. We also hear from people who primarily or exclusive use mobile devices and don't know that we have free mobile apps that they can access their resources on. We were trying to help more inactive customers understand this. I'm not sure how you would have received this email. It was supposed to go only to people who had a prior base package purchase and no recent software usage activity (in the last 6 or 12 months, I think). We'll look into it and see if we can figure out what went wrong. I'm again sorry for the confusion.

Posts 537
Fasil | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 6 2016 8:59 PM

The same here Steve!

Posts 37
J. Jackson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 8:49 AM

Me too, and I'm a daily user.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 10:30 AM

J. Jackson:

Me too, and I'm a daily user.



Being "a daily user" is different from having purchased anything.  Unless you purchase something Logos has no way to know that you are a user.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2209
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 10:59 AM

George Somsel:
Unless you purchase something Logos has no way to know that you are a user.

We look at purchase/transaction activity and application usage activity separately.

Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 11:06 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

George Somsel:
Unless you purchase something Logos has no way to know that you are a user.

We look at purchase/transaction activity and application usage activity separately.

Does this then mean that you DO track usage?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 12:11 PM

I suspect Phil didn't mean that the way it sounded, as the EULA states "Logos reserves the right to anonymously track and report users' activity inside of the Application so that we may better understand how users use the application and how best to deliver future enhancements. " The key word is anonymously. It would be a very grave matter if they were tracking activity inside the app by user.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 2:21 PM

George Somsel:
Does this then mean that you DO track usage?

He will have to clarify, but it should be clear that when you log in using your credentials, that information is sent to FL. That is the point of logging in: you gain access to the resources you have paid for, FL verifies that you are abiding by the licensing agreement. Else there is nothing preventing someone from selling access to their account (i.e. home-brew "logos cloud"). 

macOS, iOS & iPadOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 3:05 PM

alabama24:

George Somsel:
Does this then mean that you DO track usage?

He will have to clarify, but it should be clear that when you log in using your credentials, that information is sent to FL. That is the point of logging in: you gain access to the resources you have paid for, FL verifies that you are abiding by the licensing agreement. Else there is nothing preventing someone from selling access to their account (i.e. home-brew "logos cloud"). 

True, but that's much different than tracking activity by user, which is not stated in the EULA.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 5:16 PM

Installing the software on a computer and logging in is the most fundamental activity a user can do, and certainly FL would track that. 

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Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 5:30 PM

alabama24:

Installing the software on a computer and logging in is the most fundamental activity a user can do, and certainly FL would track that. 

That's not what their promise in the EULA says - that is NOT anonymous. And the reason that would get people upset is, if they are tracking that by user, what else - notes? prayers?

Phil Gons, any comment on what or if anything is tracked in our activity beyond anonymous information not tied to us?

Posts 30059
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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 7:26 PM

Don Awalt:
That's not what their promise in the EULA says - that is NOT anonymous. And the reason that would get people upset is, if they are tracking that by user, what else - notes? prayers?

I don't speak for FL, nor do I know what their practice is. I don't know why it would be controversial, however. FL has a right to know which devices you have installed the software on. Otherwise, you could sell access to your account to hundreds. 

That is not the same thing as knowing that alabama24 performed a search for such a topic. 

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Posts 9947
George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 7 2016 7:31 PM

alabama24:
I don't speak for FL, nor do I know what their practice is. I don't know why it would be controversial, however. FL has a right to know which devices you have installed the software on. Otherwise, you could sell access to your account to hundreds. 

You still can.  Some have Logos installed on more than one PC.  Some even (gasp !) have installed it on a MAC too. Wink

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 2830
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 8 2016 4:00 AM

alabama24:

Don Awalt:
That's not what their promise in the EULA says - that is NOT anonymous. And the reason that would get people upset is, if they are tracking that by user, what else - notes? prayers?

I don't speak for FL, nor do I know what their practice is. I don't know why it would be controversial, however. FL has a right to know which devices you have installed the software on. Otherwise, you could sell access to your account to hundreds. 

That is not the same thing as knowing that alabama24 performed a search for such a topic. 

I think having software which reports on user accounts greater than 'x' number of logins for investigation of license violation is a little different beast, so maybe we quibble. 

The bigger issue here is, no reply at all from Faithlife on what non-anonymous information is being collected, what activity by user, if any. That's not a good sign. Since Phil brought up the nebulous language, why wouldn't he put this to rest? Troubling.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 8 2016 4:21 AM

Don Awalt:
Since Phil brought up the nebulous language, why wouldn't he put this to rest? Troubling.

You see nefarious intentions where there are none... The forums aren't a primary place for FL to interact with customers, but rather the forums are designed to be a place to "crowd source" help. Phil likely just hasn't seen your posts. 

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 8 2016 5:45 AM

alabama24:
You see nefarious intentions where there are none... The forums aren't a primary place for FL to interact with customers, but rather the forums are designed to be a place to "crowd source" help. Phil likely just hasn't seen your posts. 

....especially since your discussion took place around 4.a.m Bellingham time - even Faithlife employees need to sleep now and then. 

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

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