Why purchase Full Feature Set instead of joining Logos Now?

I typically prefer purchasing instead of leasing software, but Faithlife has Logos Now and the Full Feature Set so priced that I don't see the advantage of owning the feature set.

LN is $89.99 (though it rises to $99.99 after the first year). To buy the Full Feature Set will cost $172.01, unless you buy a base library. I doubt that I'll buy another base library, but I could change my mind. It looks as though Logos is now on a two-year release schedule, so leasing the feature set would be a total of $189.98, $18 more dollars than staying abreast of Logos feature updates and perhaps some discounts.

1) If one is not an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set instead of simply joining LN?

2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

Oh well, I'm going to bed. I have Logos new release brain fog. Wink

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Wild Eagle

If you LN member and never buy feature set then it would be hard to give up LN because after few releases the price of set would be very high because it accumulates from previous editions.

I would buy (in few months) set because I dont want to be dependent on LN. I personally dont like subscription model, and currently subscribed because of free books I got when I purchased LN + 5% on upgrade. But, in the near feature, if I dont see deals like this, I would like to see for myself an easy option to cancel subscription without loosing major features.

Justin Gatlin

On the flip side to your first question: If you look at Logos 7 and say "That is all I ever need," then why would you rent, when you could have it forever for the cost of two years (plus eighteen dollars)?

On the second question, you shouldn't unless you think you may drop your membership.

Mike Binks

2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

You shouldn't until you are too old and senile to be able to study the bible any more.

At that point it won't matter what the cost is to purchase the upgrade - you might as well spend the money because I am told you cannot take it with you.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840708#Comment_840708

If you LN member and never buy feature set then it would be hard to give up LN because after few releases the price of set would be very high because it accumulates from previous editions.

Good point, very good point indeed. Right now I own L6 so I would only pay to upgrade to L7 if I purchased the full feature set package. But if I go with LN instead and then change my mind when L8 comes around, I would then have to pay for both L7 and L8 features on top of what I spent on LN in the interim. I would think that a 5% discount from being a LN subscriber would not come close to compensating for that. I have also noted that only the yearly option appears now for LN. It seemed to me that one could do it for a month only before. Perhaps they are hiding this option now (much like they hid the core engine for L6 for a while to "encourage" people to buy a package instead). If there is only an annual option available, then there is also the problem of timing: if I subscribe for a year to LN but then decide, after using it for 6 months, that it was a bad idea and that I should get the full feature set, I would still pay for LN another 6 months. Or is it not so?

Moreover, I have not subscribed to LN so far, although I have been tempted to. One of the questions on my mind is how having access early to features affect one's work. I know that when L6 released -- and this was before the subscription model -- a number of features were incomplete. I assume, hope, that the fact that LN has been running for a while means that L7 features are more "mature" than were those of L6 when it was first released.

If that is the case (is it?) then one has to wonder whether early L8 features are also incomplete and in their first stages their data less reliable. For personal Bible study it may not be that great of a problem, as one does not depend on the program providing comprehensive data. For those who use Logos for research, however, it is more important that functions perform largely as they promise (not expecting perfection of course). Otherwise, it can result in erroneous conclusions or time loss. Certainly fiddling around with features that are still somewhat "beta" is not something that all of us can afford to do. So then, this makes me hesitant to go with LN and have early access to developing features. The ownership track seems to come at the end of the process of maturation of these features.

Perhaps LN subscribers can offer their feedback on this.

Mark Barnes

1) If one is not an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set instead of simply joining LN?

2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

Faithlife's preference would seem to be that everyone becomes members, so they have priced things accordingly. They want us to conclude "there's no point buying the set, I'll just join Logos Now".

There are two benefits for Faithlife:

They get a more constant income stream.
They lock us in. If you buy the Feature set, you could skip L8 and L9 and keep what you have and be reasonably happy. With membership, you'll have to keep paying or lose features. Faithlife are banking on people not being willing to do that, and therefore fewer people will skip L8 and L9.

So to answer your question. You should purchase the Full Feature set instead of joining Logos Now if you're intending to skip L8 and L9, etc., but want to keep using Logos 7 for years to come. Otherwise, you should become a member.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840828#Comment_840828

Perhaps LN subscribers can offer their feedback on this.

I don't think you need to worry too much. Some tools have improved with more features during Logos Now (e.g. concordance). Some datasets have been expanded. But there have been no major examples of datasets/tools becoming more accurate. That's not to say the datasets will be perfect, but I don't think they've been any worse than those in 'normal' Logos.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840830#Comment_840830

I don't think they've been any worse than those in 'normal' Logos.

LOL

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840837#Comment_840837

I think this thread goes back to when LN was released ... would you get credit if you got off the LN train?

My current impression is 'no'. The L7 FFS is about $180 if you add over-top L6. LN or not.

That's the first problem; LN is not rent-to-own (like Amazon Prime similarly). The decision stands alone.

The second problem, is when you step off the LN train. The FFS price-tag. Buy a package, no problem.

But no package, then you face fairly significant price-inflation. For me, having crossgraded from L4, and then adding FFS, the inflation is about 50-60% for a 6 yr period. Uncompounded, maybe 8% per year.

Then, add Francis' point .... shear sticker shock to catch up ... no pick and choose. You really can't get off the LN train for free .... without backtracking to a Libby-type world (but called 'Logos). Or buy a package.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840944#Comment_840944

I think this thread goes back to when LN was released ... would you get credit if you got off the LN train?

My current impression is 'no'. The L7 FFS is about $180 if you add over-top L6. LN or not.

That's the first problem; LN is not rent-to-own (like Amazon Prime similarly). The decision stands alone.

The second problem, is when you step off the LN train. The FFS price-tag. Buy a package, no problem.

But no package, then you face fairly significant price-inflation. For me, having crossgraded from L4, and then adding FFS, the inflation is about 50-60% for a 6 yr period. Uncompounded, maybe 8% per year.

Then, add Francis' point .... shear sticker shock to catch up ... no pick and choose. You really can't get off the LN train for free .... without backtracking to a Libby-type world (but called 'Logos). Or buy a package.

Even if you buy a package, if I understand the way it is now done, the feature set is separated from the package, that feature package may go up fairly substantially if you skip an upgrade.

I don't see myself skipping an upgrade, though, if the past is an indication of the future. Still, I'm not sure I want to get "locked in" to Logos Now.

Paul Chatfield

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840950#Comment_840950

I wonder if one answer to the question why a feature set and not Logos Now is the following: Logos always gets bigger and takes up more space. If you live in a poorer part of the world, unless you have a high spec machine, Logos will always tend to the slow side. Purchasing the latest version of logos with your latest computer works well and then buying the next version when you update your computer is the best way to ensure you don't get sluggish performance.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841075#Comment_841075

I'm very tempted to do LN, but the thought of skipping several upgrades of ownership and then paying a cumulative price gives me pause, particularly when I could own L7 full feature set for $129 with the purchase of L7 Gold, which has some resources that I would like to have.

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841075#Comment_841075

Purchasing the latest version of logos with your latest computer works well and then buying the next version when you update your computer is the best way to ensure you don't get sluggish performance.

Unlike with OS (Operating Systems), latest version of Logos does not really slows down computer. It was so when update was from L3 (libronix) to L4. But this is not the case anymore. For instance, my L7 works noticeable faster than L6. I think for older systems L7 will operate much faster then L4 if you have compatible OS.

Bryce Hufford

My thoughts on why you might consider it;

1) there is no guarantee that LN will stay priced at $89/yr (or $99/yr after first year)

2) while the Logos 6 to Logos 7 was on a 2 year cycle, there is no guarantee that things will continue on that frequency. The counterpoint of course is that with the launch of LN, it seems to me that there may be more of a continuum of improvement cycle rather than a definitive you get x features in Logos 7 and you will get y features in Logos 8. I think it will be very interesting to see what new "features and tweaks" will become exclusive only for LN members vs what will be included in free software updates (7.1, 7.2, etc.) for those that choose to purchase the tools rather than rent. In my opinion, this may become a key marketing strategy to persuade people to subscribe to LN.

3) agree with previous poster that if you rent via LN, the hurdle to buy in the future becomes higher

I typically like to buy rather than rent, so I am assessing the pros and cons before I decide. I think Faithlife has done a pretty good job hitting the sweet spot in terms of pricing and features of LN. If I knew the rates were locked in at no more than $100/yr, I would probably just subscribe to LN. I've used other software that has an annual fee, but has a nice guarantee that your original rate is locked in and will never go up.

Matt Hamrick

2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

I am a Logos Now member and I am buying the Full Feature Set simply so at the launch of Logos 7 I own the feature sets. The ownership model is one Faithlife said they will keep. I do both so I can own the features and still get the new features NOW. I will do the same thing with Logos 8, 9, 10 and so on.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841145#Comment_841145

My thoughts on why you might consider it;

1) there is no guarantee that LN will stay priced at $89/yr (or $99/yr after first year)

2) while the Logos 6 to Logos 7 was on a 2 year cycle, there is no guarantee that things will continue on that frequency. The counterpoint of course is that with the launch of LN, it seems to me that there may be more of a continuum of improvement cycle rather than a definitive you get x features in Logos 7 and you will get y features in Logos 8. I think it will be very interesting to see what new "features and tweaks" will become exclusive only for LN members vs what will be included in free software updates (7.1, 7.2, etc.) for those that choose to purchase the tools rather than rent. In my opinion, this may become a key marketing strategy to persuade people to subscribe to LN.

3) agree with previous poster that if you rent via LN, the hurdle to buy in the future becomes higher

I typically like to buy rather than rent, so I am assessing the pros and cons before I decide. I think Faithlife has done a pretty good job hitting the sweet spot in terms of pricing and features of LN. If I knew the rates were locked in at no more than $100/yr, I would probably just subscribe to LN. I've used other software that has an annual fee, but has a nice guarantee that your original rate is locked in and will never go up.

It would be great to get some assurance that LN membership would remain at $100/year for a few years.

Stephen Steele

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/840829#Comment_840829

You should purchase the Full Feature set instead of joining Logos Now if you're intending to skip L8 and L9, etc., but want to keep using Logos 7 for years to come. Otherwise, you should become a member.

Mark, you said elsewhere that you had purchased the FFS. Can I ask what your thinking is? I assume you're not planning on skipping L8 and 9 and are already a LN member!

Personally, while I do like to own rather than subscribe, subscription seems to be the way things are heading (eg there seems little point buying a box-set if I'm already subscribing to netflix). What might push me over the edge towards subscription is that even if I pay more to own the features, I'd still be missing out on LN features like lemma in passage.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841319#Comment_841319

Mark, you said elsewhere that you had purchased the FFS. Can I ask what your thinking is? I assume you're not planning on skipping L8 and 9 and are already a LN member!

I did say that, and at the time I had emailed a sales rep asking to buy Baptist Platinum and the FFS. At the time I ordered FFS, partly because I thought it included a MobileEd course that you didn't get with Logos Now, and partly because I'd rather own, not rent.

However, Bradley later clarified that Logos Now will include the same course, so I changed my mind. I can always get FFS in the future should I want to cancel Now. Thankfully my sales rep had emailed to confirm payment plan details whilst this was going on, so I was able to amend my order and remove the FFS.

Phil Gons (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841167#Comment_841167

It would be great to get some assurance that LN membership would remain at $100/year for a few years.

While I can't make any promises, we currently don't have any plans to change the price of Logos Now. It would be unwise for us to change the price very often. It's likely to stay at $100 for a while.

Now, if you want to lock in your price, you're welcome to pre-purchase additional years at the $89.99 price. You can buy as many years as you want, but you'll have to do one per transaction, since we don't currently support editing the unit count for Logos Now. Each additional year you purchase will get added to the end of your current year.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/841509#Comment_841509

It would be great to get some assurance that LN membership would remain at $100/year for a few years.

While I can't make any promises, we currently don't have any plans to change the price of Logos Now. It would be unwise for us to change the price very often. It's likely to stay at $100 for a while.

Now, if you want to lock in your price, you're welcome to pre-purchase additional years at the $89.99 price. You can buy as many years as you want, but you'll have to do one per transaction, since we don't currently support editing the unit count for Logos Now. Each additional year you purchase will get added to the end of your current year.

Thanks, Phil. The $10 isn't as big an issue as wondering about being able to continue paying the Logos Now membership subscription when I'm no longer able to do vocational ministry and live on an anticipated tighter budget. I'm 61 and, God willing, plan to be in vocational ministry for another fifteen years. If I join Logos Now and stop buying the full feature sets, the dynamic pricing for, say, Logos 14 may be unaffordable.

Then again, I suspect that subscription software will be widespread in a few years industry wide, with the big two-year upgrades giving way to smaller upgrades every few weeks, much like what Logos Now is. I may just go ahead and join Logos Now.

Erik

I typically prefer purchasing instead of leasing software, but Faithlife has Logos Now and the Full Feature Set so priced that I don't see the advantage of owning the feature set.

LN is $89.99 (though it rises to $99.99 after the first year). To buy the Full Feature Set will cost $172.01, unless you buy a base library. I doubt that I'll buy another base library, but I could change my mind. It looks as though Logos is now on a two-year release schedule, so leasing the feature set would be a total of $189.98, $18 more dollars than staying abreast of Logos feature updates and perhaps some discounts.

1) If one is not an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set instead of simply joining LN?

2) If one is an LN member, why purchase the Full Feature Set?

Oh well, I'm going to bed. I have Logos new release brain fog.

I've mentioned it elsewhere, but as an LN subscriber I also want to own the Full Feature Set. The reason is that when I eventually gift/bequeath my library down the road, I don't want that individual to have to sign up for a SaS program or pay out of pocket to roll up the features. My wife and I have discussed it and if one of my children doesn't want my library, I'd like her to give it to a young pastor who is just starting out. I'd like to be able to give that person a fully functional library and avoid the possibility that it simply goes unused because they can't afford the fees.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842298#Comment_842298

I'd like her to give it to a young pastor who is just starting out. I'd like to be able to give that person a fully functional library and avoid the possibility that it simply goes unused because they can't afford the fees.

Hi Erik

I think that Faithlife is missing a trick here.

The genuine inheritance of a library should be a valuable contact point for a new customer. They really should consider an 'Inheritance Programme'.

Perhaps on sight of a death certificate they should facilitate the transfer of a library and provide a year's membership to Logos Now. Not only that but follow up support and encouragement in the use of the program could be provided. I am sure the the good will established with the new owner would pay dividends down the road.

There are always new books to buy!

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842321#Comment_842321

Perhaps on sight of a death certificate they should facilitate the transfer of a library and provide a year's membership to Logos Now.

My grandson would love that [Y]. But don't make it too sweet—Want him to pray for Papa's health without mixed emotions [:D][:P]

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/842366#Comment_842366

Just an update: I joined Logos Now yesterday without also purchasing the full feature set. Thanks to everyone, regardless of perspective, for posting in this and other threads.

Levi Durfey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/845454#Comment_845454

I joined Logos Now yesterday without also purchasing the full feature set.

I have been a Logos Now member since last December, but I really thought hard about whether or not to purchase the Full Feature set. In the end, like you, I've also decided not to do so, but just to continue on with Logos Now. I like the early access to new features (although there's only a few I use) and I loved waking up at 3 AM one morning to find Logos 7 downloading—no fuss over what package to buy.

As to cost, $100 a year to rent a powerful tool is a good deal (compare that to other industries, like renting construction equipment). I'll set aside $10 a month from my book fund to pay for it—so it actually makes finances easier for me.

When/if I retire, I'll probably not need all those features that I did not purchase every two years, but I'll still have my books and something to read them on and to search them.

I didn't think I would be, and it took several months to change, but I am happy with Logos Now.

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/845465#Comment_845465

This is a paradigm shift that's been hard to get my head around, but I finally decided it's the way to go. Your post is encouraging, Levi. Thanks for sharing.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/845672#Comment_845672

I think that the financial situation of the buyer makes a difference as well (and their confidence that they can count on continuing to be rather prosperous in years to come).

There are buyers like me for whom the question FFS vs LN is either/or from a financial standpoint.

Others seem to have more money to invest and so can use LN both for its own benefits (early access to new features, promos, Bible browser) and to get a discount on packages they want to own.

Personally, I have learned not to presume of the future. I cannot presume what my means will be and that I will be able to continue a subscription indefinitely. I cannot presume that I would then have sufficient means to pay the accumulated differential to revert to full ownership. Getting what I can now is what I know I can do now and will remain mine.

Furthermore, while I hope that FL lives long and prospers, we cannot predict how the economy of the US will fare in years to come and how long of a future the company has or how it may affect its future policies and pricing. All in all, it goes back to my very first point: playing it safe or assuming that all will be well.

BTW, how long has LN been around for? It's already 10% up. I don't mean to be cynical, but while I believe that FL really wants to keep its cost reasonable, reality might catch up at some point (cf., Noet, pre-publications, etc). It may be too good of a deal to continue to be true.

I am all in support of solutions that can help FL leverage cost of operation over time if this what they need. This is why I would be in support of a rent-to-own approach. But sole dependence on subscription does not seem a good alternative to ownership if a choice must be made between the two.

Mattillo

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/845862#Comment_845862

I'm relatively new to Logos. I bought 6 Gold a year or so ago and joined LN about 4 months ago. I really hate "renting" things so even though I'm a LN member I bought Logos 7 Silver with the Full Feature set. I did this for two reasons though my thinking could be off. 1) I would rather own things in the event I stop using LN in the future. I also got a large discount buying the set now with the package whereas later I don't know how much i might get discounted. 2) I plan to stay with Logos for as long as I can so when L8 comes out I was fearful the feature set would only get more expensive as I'd have to buy 7 and 8 features if I didn't buy now

Bill Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/845862#Comment_845862

I think that the financial situation of the buyer makes a difference as well (and their confidence that they can count on continuing to be rather prosperous in years to come).

There are buyers like me for whom the question FFS vs LN is either/or from a financial standpoint.

Others seem to have more money to invest and so can use LN both for its own benefits (early access to new features, promos, Bible browser) and to get a discount on packages they want to own.

Personally, I have learned not to presume of the future. I cannot presume what my means will be and that I will be able to continue a subscription indefinitely. I cannot presume that I would then have sufficient means to pay the accumulated differential to revert to full ownership. Getting what I can now is what I know I can do now and will remain mine.

Furthermore, while I hope that FL lives long and prospers, we cannot predict how the economy of the US will fare in years to come and how long of a future the company has or how it may affect its future policies and pricing. All in all, it goes back to my very first point: playing it safe or assuming that all will be well.

BTW, how long has LN been around for? It's already 10% up. I don't mean to be cynical, but while I believe that FL really wants to keep its cost reasonable, reality might catch up at some point (cf., Noet, pre-publications, etc). It may be too good of a deal to continue to be true.

I am all in support of solutions that can help FL leverage cost of operation over time if this what they need. This is why I would be in support of a rent-to-own approach. But sole dependence on subscription does not seem a good alternative to ownership if a choice must be made between the two.

Thank you, Francis, for you input. It seems that similar arguments can be made pro and con for going with Logos Now only.

One's financial situation always needs to be considered. Particularly for those coming into Logos, Logos Now allows them to access the full feature set without making a $500 or so up front investment. For those of us with Logos 6, it is not as cut and dry. Many of us have limited funds, probably like you, and we have to consider all sorts of perspectives.

I, too, have learned not to presume upon the future, and that was a primary reason for my not subscribing to Logos Now until this week. Who knows that Now will continue? Indeed, but the same argument works the other way, too: Who knows that the ownership option of the full feature set will continue? We are told that Logos plans to continue with the two-pronged feature set ownership / Logos Now options, but who really knows? For me, should I have to drop Now, something that I do not foresee but that could happen, I would retain Logos 6 capabilities. I can deal with that.

My research points to software as a subscription being the future, but none of us knows for certain one way or the other.

Interestingly enough, the argument about presuming upon the future is used against digital books themselves. Buy print books and they will be around for a lifetime and longer, barring a fire or natural disaster. Who knows about software? Perhaps Logos will go out of business. Then what? Surely with this base of customers, some corporation will buy it, but no one knows for sure.

The price increase of Now concerned me, too, and I raised that very point. The initial offering of Now required ownership of Logos 6 Gold, if I recall correctly. The repackaged Now has done away with that, allowing subscribers to join who are new Logos users. In addition, to my concern about price increases, Phil responded: "While I can't make any promises, we currently don't have any plans to change the price of Logos Now. It would be unwise for us to change the price very often. It's likely to stay at $100 for a while. Now, if you want to lock in your price, you're welcome to pre-purchase additional years at the $89.99 price. You can buy as many years as you want, but you'll have to do one per transaction, since we don't currently support editing the unit count for Logos Now. Each additional year you purchase will get added to the end of your current year" (https://community.logos.com/forums/p/129395/842262.aspx). I think Logos trying to increase beyond $100 a year within the next two or three years would create a net loss of Now membership.

There is some talk going on about a better ownership option for Logos Now members. Bob has been involved in the conversation, but nothing has yet been decided. In my opinion, paying for a Now subscription plus paying for the full feature set even at 25% off is an unwise use of funds. That's pretty high insurance for the "what ifs." I would like to see Faithlife providing Now members an option at the end of the upgrade cycle with the opportunity to purchase the full feature set being replaced with the upgrade for something like $50. I may pay $50 and continue my subscription.

What tipped going with Now for me was the aggravation of getting all the new feature and data sets at once with the major upgrade. It is overwhelming to me. Getting them along and along with Logos Now, I think, should be better.

In my opinion, Logos Now strikes a good balance between ownership and subscription. We own the books, some of us own the feature/data sets of Logos 6 or earlier, and we lease the upcoming features. I'm comfortable with that, but Logos has provided an alternative for those who wish to continue owning not only their books but the full feature set of the current release. Everyone has to do what makes sense to him or her, based upon their situation and comfort.