New Payment Plan Offer Misleading

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This post has 39 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 1700
JoshInRI | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 5:51 AM

My response below.  The bird is Logos

delivering the final straw to this camel....

Posts 6861
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 8:19 AM

Josh:

Josh:

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this.... :/

Faithlife reached out to me and corrected this error. I didn't even have to call - they saw my post. I have to say, I am thankful for their willingness to respond to my concerns with this matter.

You mean stacked plan as in your payments will go up for a few months until you pay off your new added payment plan. For example, you owe 15 months, you pay $115, but you stack a new payment plan that equals 3 months, and now your payments go up to $170 for three months and then it will revert back to $115 after those three months are over since you're pretty much done paying for the "stacked" payment plan. The only difference is you don't pay an extra $5 bucks interest...I mean administration/processing fee or whatever you choose to call it. At least that's what I was told it would happen if I added/stacked a new payment plan.

Posts 1505
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 8:40 AM

DAL:

Josh:

Josh:

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this.... :/

Faithlife reached out to me and corrected this error. I didn't even have to call - they saw my post. I have to say, I am thankful for their willingness to respond to my concerns with this matter.

You mean stacked plan as in your payments will go up for a few months until you pay off your new added payment plan. For example, you owe 15 months, you pay $115, but you stack a new payment plan that equals 3 months, and now your payments go up to $170 for three months and then it will revert back to $115 after those three months are over since you're pretty much done paying for the "stacked" payment plan. The only difference is you don't pay an extra $5 bucks interest...I mean administration/processing fee or whatever you choose to call it. At least that's what I was told it would happen if I added/stacked a new payment plan.

I am not exactly sure of all the variables that factor into my specific plan and how they differ from others. However, after my order of L7, I saw two payment plans on my account. FL sent me an email saying that my plans were meant to be combined but this was delayed due to the high volume of costumer interactions this week. Now, I see just one plan. When I click on this plan's details I see two orders, however, the payment plan itself has these orders combined into one total. My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months. This is what I wanted albeit I would have liked it to be stretched out for 20 months. Either way, I'm happy enough with the situation.   

Posts 406
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:01 AM

Josh:

My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months.

Was your existing plan sitting at 11 months before the new plan was combined?

Posts 3509
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:04 AM

That is good news! You got lucky. I had to pay a large down payment for mine

Posts 3509
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:06 AM

I would have bought a lot more resources if I could have combined under the advertised plan.

Unfortunately I was only offered the old short plan with large down payment or stacked plans

Posts 1505
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:10 AM

Erik:

Josh:

My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months.

Was your existing plan sitting at 11 months before the new plan was combined?

I had 10 months left on my older plan.

Posts 1505
Josh | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:11 AM

Mattillo:

That is good news! You got lucky. I had to pay a large down payment for mine

I, too, had to put some money down. But it wasn't much.

Posts 3400
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:14 AM

Josh:

Josh:

Stacked payment plan? Wow, I just checked my payment plan page under my account and I see TWO payment plans now. The rep on the phone made it sound like it was going to be rolled into one. Not only that, but I couldn't get him to do better than 11 months. I even mentioned that I did NOT want to pay the 5 dollar convenience charge twice a month. I'm going to have to call tomorrow about this.... :/

Faithlife reached out to me and corrected this error. I didn't even have to call - they saw my post. I have to say, I am thankful for their willingness to respond to my concerns with this matter.

That's great!

Faithlife employees, on the assumption that you're still reading this thread, could someone confirm/clarify/correct what all's been said here about payment plans and the present promotion? Thanks!

Posts 406
Erik | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 9:22 AM

Josh:

Erik:

Josh:

My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months.

Was your existing plan sitting at 11 months before the new plan was combined?

I had 10 months left on my older plan.

Interesting. It looks like an exception was made from the current policy for that one additional month. Maybe Sales Reps have the ability to do this where the existing plan meets specific criteria and the plan terms aren't significantly different. The result in your case most likely didn't result in a major shifting of revenue for FL.

Posts 6861
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Aug 27 2016 10:40 AM

Erik:

Josh:

Erik:

Josh:

My monthly payment is evenly distributed throughout the whole duration on the plan for the next 11 months.

Was your existing plan sitting at 11 months before the new plan was combined?

I had 10 months left on my older plan.

Interesting. It looks like an exception was made from the current policy for that one additional month. Maybe Sales Reps have the ability to do this where the existing plan meets specific criteria and the plan terms aren't significantly different. The result in your case most likely didn't result in a major shifting of revenue for FL.

 They could have easily done that with my 18 month plan and just stretch it to 20, just a two months difference and I even wouldn't have minded giving a down payment, but intead, they just wanted to further complicate things by having me do a higher monthly payment and after that instead of reverting back to my normal payments, they were going to make it even higher, so I declined and went the other route which is cheaper for me at 0 down, 0 interest and 0 fees for processing my payments. So win-win for everyone; FL got their money, I got my resources and still get 30 days trial to change my mind. So far, so good, so what hehe...I'm not a math wizard, but I still think when all is said and done FL's $5 processing payment turns out to be an 18% interest rate for everybody of the total purchase  - more like a personal loan with fixed monthly payments that have been divided by the total amount of your purchase and the months allowed (e.g. 10, 15, 20). I understand Fal preferring that over switching to a FL Credit Card that would allow you to buy based on your credit score - not only would they lose money, but not everyone would qualify. So call it interest, processing fee or whatver, is still an awesome deal for everyone.

I will say this, though,  it's not pleasant to talk to sales reps anymore they sound more like robots now. I even sense how uncomfortable some feel keeping the conversation within whatever script they've been given. I feel sorry for them!

Posts 273
LogosEmployee
Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 29 2016 3:52 PM

As many of you know, we began making revisions to our payment plan terms last November to ensure we continued to run a healthy and sustainable business.   

We know how important payment plans have been to many customers, and focused on ensuring that when we launched Logos 7, we would have more flexibility in the terms we were able to offer.

We did revise the payment plan terms available at launch.  These are the changes we made:

Prior to 8/22

    • Orders needed to meet the following requirement
      • Above $100
    • Down payment was calculated to ensure 30% of the order was paid over the first 3 payments

Since 8/22

    • Orders need to meet the following requirements
      • Above $100
      • Contain a Logos 7 Library or Logos 7 Feature Set
    • The down payments equals the monthly payment.  (Order total / number of months in the plan) + $5 administration fee = monthly payment

Regarding the length of payment plans

    • The maximum length plan we offer is 20 months total, this has not changed.
      • The website displays the the down payment amount (payment 1), and the amount and number of of subsequent payments.
      • Note that there are only 19 subsequent payments on a 20 month plan.
    • Our current payment plan thresholds are (subject to change at any time).
Order Total Number of Payments
$100 5
$130 6
$200 7
$300 8
$400 9
$500 10
$600 11
$750 12
$900 13
$1,050 14
$1,200 15
$1,350 16
$1,500 17
$1,650 18
$1800 19
$2900 20

Regarding combining a purchase with an existing payment plan

We currently have two "combine payment plans" models that we can offer (also subject to change at any time).

  • Stacked Combine
    • With this model, customers see their monthly payment fluctuate 
      • Example:
        • Existing Plan: 14 remaining months at $200 per month
        • New Purchase Qualifies for - 10 months at $50 per month
        • Resulting plan, 10 months at $250 per month then 4 months at $200 per month
      • Note that while the plans are combined, both plans are paid off on their appropriate schedule
      • When a user combines plans in this way, they only pay a single administration fee each month
  • Pure Combine
    • With this model, customers see even payments, but the number of months on their plan will fluctuate
      • We use an algorithm to allow users to calculate a downpayment, and a number of even monthly payments
      • The algorithm ensures that no portion of any plan will be extended beyond it's appropriate payment schedule
      • In many cases, users will find that this scenario will result in fewer months being offered
      • When a user combines plans in this way, they only pay a single administration fee each month

Regarding the special payment plan terms currently being offered

We're very happy to have been able to launch Logos 7 with special payment plan terms, and thankful that many users have found a way to take advantage of them.  

We're always happy to help anyone combine payment plans in person, you can reach us at (800) 875-6467.

You can find more information about our payment plan program here:  https://www.logos.com/faq#PaymentPlans

Payment plan specifics for any single order can always be found in the shopping cart on our website for any qualifying order.

Customers who wish to purchase and combine with an existing plan should call our sales department at (888) 875-9491.  This is a two part process, where your order is first created on the payment plan it qualifies for, then combined with the other plan or plans on your account.  This process does take time, and we are processing a high volume of these right now, but you should see your account updated within a few days of your order. 

Posts 2360
mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 29 2016 4:52 PM

I've got one plan that's been going on for some time. Fortunately, most of it will now be much easier to meet since I relocated. I might have rolled L7 into a plan, but I decided to change my perspective.I bought a small package outright instead of a bigger package on a plan.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 13386
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Aug 29 2016 11:40 PM

Glenn Airoldi:
We did revise the payment plan terms available at launch.

While I think the new plan structure is helpful for those buying L7, it should have been announced that the old payment plans (without L7) were no longer being made available. I think most of us assumed that the new L7 plan was in addition to what was already available.

Posts 1022
Keith Pang | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 30 2016 1:22 AM

So there's no more payment plans for anything over a $100? Only Logos 7 Packages and the FFS? 

Shalom, in Christ, Keith. Check out my music www.soundcloud.com/kpang808

Posts 13386
Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 30 2016 2:51 AM

Keith Pang:

So there's no more payment plans for anything over a $100? Only Logos 7 Packages and the FFS? 

At the moment. We don't yet know whether this is temporary or permanent. Hopefully Glenn will clarify soon.

Posts 273
LogosEmployee
Glenn Airoldi (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Aug 30 2016 8:36 AM

Our long term aspiration is offer customized payment plan terms per individual order, however our system currently only allows us to offer a single payment plan model.  We don't yet have the ability to define two or more different payment plan models, and define criteria that ensures the proper plan is offered at the proper time.

So, for launch, we made a change to the payment plan terms, and this becomes the form the model takes.

Can you put any resources we sell on a payment plan under  the current terms?

Yes, as long as the order that contains the resources is over $100, and the order contains a Logos 7 Library or Logos 7 Feature set.

The benefit of this change to users is that we can offer lower down payments than we have been for the past 8 months.

Posts 47
Pastor Mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 17 2016 6:53 AM

Just adding my feedback. I had a $469 resource collection on my Wishlist for a while. I wanted to start payment plans and discovered this change. Now its off to Amazon to find the title I'm looking for since it can't be purchased individually in Logos. 

I bought in at Logos 5. I have seen no compelling reason to upgrade since. In my opinion, Logos 7 seems to be geared towards pastors who want to save time in the process of bringing a sermon to a multimedia service display, yet it is priced towards a pastor that would have the staff to make all that happen in a better way than Logos can deliver. I just can't see the value or don't identify with the target audience. Meanwhile I lose the payment plan option for that target audience. 

Just my two sense. Yes, I'm still a Logos fanboy. 

Posts 47
Pastor Mike | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 12 2017 6:02 AM

Pastor Mike:

Just adding my feedback. I had a $469 resource collection on my Wishlist for a while. I wanted to start payment plans and discovered this change. Now its off to Amazon to find the title I'm looking for since it can't be purchased individually in Logos. 

I bought in at Logos 5. I have seen no compelling reason to upgrade since. In my opinion, Logos 7 seems to be geared towards pastors who want to save time in the process of bringing a sermon to a multimedia service display, yet it is priced towards a pastor that would have the staff to make all that happen in a better way than Logos can deliver. I just can't see the value or don't identify with the target audience. Meanwhile I lose the payment plan option for that target audience. 

Just my two sense. Yes, I'm still a Logos fanboy. 

Update: Payments are back on single resource library! Thank you! 

Posts 2892
Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 12 2017 10:53 AM

I hate to point out the elephant in the room, but if we don't spend money we don't have, all this is moot (Prov. 11:15).

Put it on your wish list and start saving money. When you have enough, and the resource is your top priority, buy it.

It's not rocket surgery.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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