New Forum Topic: Bible Study Using Logos

Page 1 of 1 (17 items)
This post has 16 Replies | 0 Followers

Posts 9553
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Mar 6 2010 10:26 AM

There has been some discussion over the fact that the forum has become more a place to get help with crashes and problems than a place to get help in using Logos for Bible study and research. For example see: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/12993.aspx Others have made similar comments.

I think this is a valid issue and suggest a new forum devoted just to discussion of the use of Logos for Bible study be created. It would be necessary to try to keep bug reports and problems from getting into that forum. Self-policing is probably the way, but it might need to be moderated so posts could be redirected as needed.

Perhaps the current Logos 4 forum needs to be renamed at the same time to something like: Logos 4 Problems.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1561
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 11:25 AM

Mark A. Smith:

There has been some discussion over the fact that the forum has become more a place to get help with crashes and problems than a place to get help in using Logos for Bible study and research. For example see: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/12993.aspx Others have made similar comments.

I think this is a valid issue and suggest a new forum devoted just to discussion of the use of Logos for Bible study be created. It would be necessary to try to keep bug reports and problems from getting into that forum. Self-policing is probably the way, but it might need to be moderated so posts could be redirected as needed.

Perhaps the current Logos 4 forum needs to be renamed at the same time to something like: Logos 4 Problems.

A debate forum ? Any forum devoted to bible study will become a debate forum. There are so many perspectives that it would be impossible to avoid it.

I personally am all for the idea. That is why I started my own Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 Forum.. Logos did not have one available.. It was also seen as improper to do such a thing here in the forum. Each section of the forum is designed for a specific purpose. If logos does not want to start one you guys are welcome to use mine for that sort of purpose. That is kinda what I designed it for.

Posts 1360
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 11:49 AM

Mark A. Smith:

There has been some discussion over the fact that the forum has become more a place to get help with crashes and problems than a place to get help in using Logos for Bible study and research. For example see: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/12993.aspx Others have made similar comments.

I think this is a valid issue and suggest a new forum devoted just to discussion of the use of Logos for Bible study be created. It would be necessary to try to keep bug reports and problems from getting into that forum. Self-policing is probably the way, but it might need to be moderated so posts could be redirected as needed.

Perhaps the current Logos 4 forum needs to be renamed at the same time to something like: Logos 4 Problems.

Agreed!

Posts 9553
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 11:58 AM

Blair Laird:
A debate forum ?

I'm not quite sure what using Logos for Bible study and debate have in common. Using Bible study to defend one's position or using Bible study to promote one's interpretation, sure.  But that isn't what I am suggesting. Don't know why it would have to be that kind of forum.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1561
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 12:18 PM

Mark A. Smith:

Blair Laird:
A debate forum ?

I'm not quite sure what using Logos for Bible study and debate have in common. Using Bible study to defend one's position or using Bible study to promote one's interpretation, sure.  But that isn't what I am suggesting. Don't know why it would have to be that kind of forum.

 

I know that you are not suggesting that.. The link that you provided was a post about bible study. Topics in bible study have different perspectives. What I am saying is: It would be impossible to prevent a bible study topic discussion from turning into a debate.  Terry from the link you provided also noted

"I am not looking for theological debates, although with this group that you are going to have a hard time resisting, I am looking for real word examples".

What I am saying is it would be almost impossible to prevent it from turning into a debate forum. I apologize for not being clear.. Blessings

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 1:07 PM

Blair Laird:

know that you are not suggesting that.. The link that you provided was a post about bible study. Topics in bible study have different perspectives. What I am saying is: It would be impossible to prevent a bible study topic discussion from turning into a debate.  Terry from the link you provided also noted

"I am not looking for theological debates, although with this group that you are going to have a hard time resisting, I am looking for real word examples".

Blair, I recognized the temptation that these types of posts will have for most of us, but I believe that the peer pressure of the group can be effective in not letting this happen. But I do believe that I can learn from the bible study methodology of another, even if I disagree with their conclusions. Mark's sermon prep series is my prime example (I don't even know the conclusions he arrived at).

 

 

Posts 1561
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 3:17 PM

Terry Poperszky:
Blair, I recognized the temptation that these types of posts will have for most of us, but I believe that the peer pressure of the group can be effective in not letting this happen. But I do believe that I can learn from the bible study methodology of another, even if I disagree with their conclusions. Mark's sermon prep series is my prime example (I don't even know the conclusions he arrived at).

I believe you have a good idea.. I personally dont think the peer pressure will be effective, but that is my opinion. Even if it does become a debate forum, I dont see a problem with that (love is the key) Some people see debate as hostile, I dont see that as necessarily true. It can, and does happen, but I dont see it as the norm. Especially in Christian debate. Iron sharpens iron, we are to continually be thinking, talking and living the word of God. That is why I see your idea as profitable.

 

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 3:54 PM

Blair Laird:
Even if it does become a debate forum, I dont see a problem with that (love is the key)

Love should be the key to all of our interactions Smile I agree with your love of debate, especially in the realm of BS, the problem for me, is that the medium of the forum seems to be a singularly ineffective one in conveying ideas.

Blair Laird:
Some people see debate as hostile, I dont see that as necessarily true. It can, and does happen, but I dont see it as the norm.
The stance that you state is true of a mature christian, unfortunately they let people like me participate which spoils the demographic.

Blair Laird:
Iron sharpens iron, we are to continually be thinking, talking and living the word of God.
I couldn't agree more, but at least in my life I have had to be very careful about choosing the opposing iron, and have offended too many in my quest for sharpening.

Blair, I don't think we disagree on a single thing in so far as the concept goes. I am truly awed at the diversity that congregates on this board, and the minimal amount of bickering that goes on. But I think that this is because we do not focus on those areas where we disagree, which is what I believe would happen if we moved from BS methodology to doctrine (or worse dogma). I may be wrong since I tend to be a tad cynical (or as I like to call it, realistic Big Smile)about people in general.

 

 

Posts 5573
Forum MVP
Rich DeRuiter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 4:21 PM

Blair Laird:
A debate forum ? Any forum devoted to bible study will become a debate forum. There are so many perspectives that it would be impossible to avoid it.

I don't think so.

Here's an example of how I use Logos.

I'm studying the parable of the wise and foolish virgins (Matt 25:1-13). I wondered whether the oil has any intentional metaphorical significance in the parable. None of the commentaries I read suggested anything of the kind, but I don't let commentators define my study. So I searched the Bible for all the uses of oil, and then focused on those places where oil was likely to be used metaphorically (Psalms, Proverbs & the prophets). I read the significant verses simply by hovering my mouse over the references in the grid list. For a few references, I needed to click the reference to read in context.

I didn't answer any specific questions, but I did begin to wonder about the essential nature of joy/gladness, the Holy Spirit, commissioning/calling, healing/deliverance, etc., let alone all the ceremonial uses of oil spelled out in the Pentateuch. And while I wouldn't argue for any one of them over the more obvious idea that oil here is simply a fuel for the lamps (or torches, if you prefer), it was an interesting study and has me wondering. I like wondering about and pondering unanswerable questions, I guess.

These kinds of word studies are one of my favorite ways to use Logos.

Now you could debate whether I was an idiot for even considering a metaphorical understanding of oil here. That's beside the point. I had a question I felt was worth pursuing and used Logos in this way to do it.

 Help links: WIKI;  Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)

Posts 9553
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 4:30 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
I had a question I felt was worth pursuing and used Logos in this way to do it.

Thanks for sharing your research. I think this is the interesting sort of information and discussion that is missing or is being buried in the Logos 4 forum at this point. Having a forum just to discuss this sort of thing seems to me to be worthwhile.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 1561
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 4:39 PM

Terry Poperszky:
the problem for me, is that the medium of the forum seems to be a singularly ineffective one in conveying ideas.

I did not understand this point, could you elaborate ?

Terry Poperszky:
The stance that you state is true of a mature christian, unfortunately they let people like me participate which spoils the demographic.

I get frustrated sometimes in debate myself. Most of the time it is at myself not being able to articulate my point. Other times it is at other not understanding or looking at what I am trying to say. I used to get frustrated alot in debate when I first started, however over the years I have be exposed to debate full of Christian love. That has helped. I am now able to copy that sort of attitude being able to see it first hand. It is one thing to say we need to love each other in debate. It is another thing to see it in action. It was at the point I seen it in action that I was able to model myself after it. By no means in I perfect.. I fail all the time, but over the years it has got less and less.

Like I said I think it is an awesome idea, and I hope they implement it.

 

Posts 1360
Edwin Bowden | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 4:46 PM

Mark A. Smith:

Richard DeRuiter:
I had a question I felt was worth pursuing and used Logos in this way to do it.

Thanks for sharing your research. I think this is the interesting sort of information and discussion that is missing or is being buried in the Logos 4 forum at this point. Having a forum just to discuss this sort of thing seems to me to be worthwhile.

Agreed. This is the kind of examples that could be very valuable. The purpose of Logos software is not to become computer experts. We want to become good students of the Bible. Although technical help is important to enable us to use the tools of Logos, practical help in using those tools is the real goal.

Posts 1561
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 4:48 PM

Richard DeRuiter:
Now you could debate whether I was an idiot for even considering a metaphorical understanding of oil here. That's beside the point. I had a question I felt was worth pursuing and used Logos in this way to do it.

I see your point.. How many posts do you think will be structured like yours? I would assume very few, but it is all guess work seeing as it has never been implemented.

Richard DeRuiter:
I'm studying the parable

Normal 0 false false false EN-US X-NONE X-NONE MicrosoftInternetExplorer4

I was going through the parables pretty recently also. There is a diversity of thoughts when it comes to the symbolism in Jesus' parables. I am stumped with the birds of the air. Many scholars will say birds of the air are always bad..(Expositional constancy) others will say it is a parable about the kingdom of heaven so it can’t be bad. The same thing with the leaven and the mustard seed.. Are they good or bad parables.. Those questions I have been dwelling on..

If I were to use the methodology of expositional constancy oil refers to the Holy Spirit. This would seem to mean the 10 virgins are the church. However what if it is the 10 tribes of Israel. I don’t know if expositional constancy is the best methodology. E.g. you get in trouble if you think lion always represents Jesus.

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 5:00 PM

Blair Laird:

Terry Poperszky:
the problem for me, is that the medium of the forum seems to be a singularly ineffective one in conveying ideas.

I did not understand this point, could you elaborate ?

See, this proves my point Big Smile 

Seriously, I personally am much more comfortable (and effective) expressing my ideas verbally. Forums, news groups and emails lack much of the communication nuances that a face to face, or even voice only conversation have. As such, discussions (or debates) in a forum environment lend themselves as much to miscommunication as communication.

This shows up even when discussing methodology. I just wrote a post about using the text comparison tool in which I had try to explain why a passage "felt wrong", I felt silly using such terminology in explaining it, but it was all I had. Now on the other hand, tomorrow I will use that same terminology with my SS class and because I will be able to use non-verbal cues and receive them in turn, I won't have a problem.

 

 

Posts 1561
Blair Laird | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 6 2010 5:08 PM

See, this proves my point Big Smile 

Seriously, I personally am much more comfortable (and effective) expressing my ideas verbally. Forums, news groups and emails lack much of the communication nuances that a face to face, or even voice only conversation have. As such, discussions (or debates) in a forum environment lend themselves as much to miscommunication as communication.

This shows up even when discussing methodology. I just wrote a post about using the text comparison tool in which I had try to explain why a passage "felt wrong", I felt silly using such terminology in explaining it, but it was all I had. Now on the other hand, tomorrow I will use that same terminology with my SS class and because I will be able to use non-verbal cues and receive them in turn, I won't have a problem.

Now I understand.. I agree there are a lot of things that dont come across. That is why those "Big Smile"'s help. Especially when you are just joking around. People cannot see you smile on the other side of the screen. While those things (Big Smile) help, they do not fix the issue. I have a hard time finding people who actually want to discuss the bible. Even pastors!Tongue Tied in my area. So debate forums have been a good outlet.

 

Posts 10893
Forum MVP
Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 12:48 PM

Blair Laird:
The same thing with the leaven and the mustard seed.. Are they good or bad parables..

The parables are good, but the meaning of the symbols are open to debate.Geeked As to methodology, one should study all the examples of the metaphorical uses of leaven in Scripture as Richard did with oil in his example.

For the mustard seed, start with Bible Dictionaries so you can determine if the growth is normal or abnormal. Are the birds in the tree good or bad? A study of birds throughout Scripture may or may not provide insight, but it might be interesting. Does the first parable in this sequence provide insight?

Now, when we start to answer those question on a forum, … Geeked We can discuss the methodology, but the interpretation of the results is a different story.

Posts 187
Anthony Etienne | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 7 2010 1:15 PM

Mark A. Smith:

Richard DeRuiter:
I had a question I felt was worth pursuing and used Logos in this way to do it.

Thanks for sharing your research. I think this is the interesting sort of information and discussion that is missing or is being buried in the Logos 4 forum at this point. Having a forum just to discuss this sort of thing seems to me to be worthwhile.

I agree with you Mark

Yes+1

 

Page 1 of 1 (17 items) | RSS