New Philosophical works

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 10 2010 11:44 PM

I think this has reached the point of needing a gentle reminder that the forums are based on a shared software and not as a theological forum.  How do I know? Because it was soooo ... tempting to add a provocative response. Don't you know that Christians aren't to be a temptation to other Christians?Zip it!

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 6:13 AM

MJ. Smith:
I think this has reached the point of needing a gentle reminder that the forums are based on a shared software and not as a theological forum.

 

Yep. It is the strongest weakness of mine. I tried to legitimize my post with the link to Logos apologetics resources. http://www.logos.com/products/groups/allitems/theology-doctrine-apologetics  I really DO think they suffice for most Christians daily needs. Those who need more should drop suggestions and watch the Pre-Pub page. (I certainly will.)

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David Emme | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 9:10 PM

MJ. Smith:
I think this has reached the point of needing a gentle reminder that the forums are based on a shared software and not as a theological forum.  How do I know? Because it was soooo ... tempting to add a provocative response. Don't you know that Christians aren't to be a temptation to other Christians?Zip it!

 

Have no problem following this understanding there will be a diverse group here and we will not always agree which is fine, but when seeing a passive agressive thrown stuff out there not adressed to anyone but knowing my first post being against a certain thought so these Passive Agressive people throwing it out there-I just have never been the type to lay down for someone and when seeing as this type of sniping about others based on philosophical ideas-I just happen to believe going straight to the source.

Saying this, I have stated 1. Am Against emerent postmodernism 2. Seeing some works on this come out. 3. would like to see other philosophical works of both modernism/postmodernism -or basiucally in what I did not say-generally any philosophiucal works from the enlightenment 4. More works from the more popular emergent postmoderns as Jones, Padgitt, McLaren be made available as most I have seen is the more obscure theologian type works such as Frei and others I never heard of. 4. Going through a change in faith movements while not trying to drop bombs on those who come here and feel I am just shalacking one faith movement 5. And even saw someone tell me I was a it unfair in some of my comments which believe it or not-even when I disagree, I can appreciate someone taking me to task on here

My personality, in fact is obviously not conducive to emerent postmodernism as I see it-yes I am the type of person to verbally punch in the throat as I try not to be this way too much here. One comment dealing with fideism okay-I let that pass=when I start seeing other comments-just as you did here-it is time to putn your foot down.

Me I just wander if I have the same experiances here I have had in other online communities.
or instance in my Onliest stages, was on a community forum where most disagreed with me. Knowing sometimes some KJV onliests tend to be insulting I basically decided I would not act like them. Because in the past some ruckmanites went in there and had the most insulting tones-I was treated a certain way when I kept asking if we just allow anyone to insult anyone based on what you believe. Got tired of being insulted and me as a very black and white personality-if we are going to be right, lets do the right thing or if we are going to be sin, lets really be in sin and not hide anything because we are Christians-lets really be sinful by which all the tiime in the military you learn all kinds of things and this I used as insulting many speaking of their mother and wives in less complimentary ways. So, basically all of a sudden all these people started telling me I am wrong. Of course, I embraced what I did-admitted, "Yah, your right, I am wrong-now are you going to be consistant in your judgements of sin or only when it is a KJV Only person in sin is when you decide to put your foot down."

The whole point of this is this-is it the same here. When a person acts as a passive agressive-will this be handled or only when the more obtuse and obvious are ever seen as being wrong.

The whole point is will we be equitable? Will we treat all the same with the same standard? When someone makes insulting remarks not to anyone person but overall to anyone in a discussion, will this be curtailed?

Am not saying I am far from being perfect but consistancy I think is fairly important to me as I am sure to others.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 11 2010 11:44 PM

I take the star under my name seriously and try to be even-handed about when I step in. I cannot speak for others.

David Emme:
Me I just wander if I have the same experiances here I have had in other online communities.

I hope your experiences here will be more pleasant. They should be if you stick to Logos topics rather than discussing your (or any posters') theological views.

David Emme:
The whole point is will we be equitable?

I don't know. But if each of us follow the guidelines in our own posts, the question should never come up.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 12 2010 11:44 AM

David Emme:
Have no problem following this understanding there will be a diverse group here and we will not always agree which is fine, but when seeing a passive agressive thrown stuff out there not adressed to anyone but knowing my first post being against a certain thought so these Passive Agressive people throwing it out there-I just have never been the type to lay down for someone and when seeing as this type of sniping about others based on philosophical ideas-I just happen to believe going straight to the source.

David,

The Logos forums isn't the place to take theological stands. Although it does help people understand where we are coming from (or how we arrived at our current perspective) it isn't necessary or productive to spar with each other. There are probably an overabundance of Passive-Agressives posting. That is preferable to the all-out Agressives we have heard from The totally Passive don't post much.

Your original post has been read and understood. Naturally  Your resources, MJ's resources and My resources will differ somewhat depending on our interests and needs. George Somsel uses his Concise Coptic dictionary, Bob Pritchett said he personally has no need for a Coptic Dictionary but has the Crum's on Pre-Pub http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/5970  for those who may want/need it. I am happy Logos does not limit their publishing to one theology. A lot of titles would not get published if they had to meet someone's litmus test.

 BTW: Theological Studies Collection  http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/4534 is back on the Pre-Pub list with a few adjustments. Given enough time I predict Logos will also address the Philosophical arena with similar collections. At least I hope they will. Smile

 fwiw: MSN had a chat group called "A God's Fight" where people of every imaginable persuasion could debate, attack, insult or proselytize. It was very lively but not for the faint-hearted or tender ears. I finally quit frequenting the place because it was a fruitless venture. Logos forums should never emulate that forum.

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Pat Flanakin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 12 2010 12:01 PM

To wrap up----

Did Christ come as a man:  yes

Did Christ communicate:  yes

Is Christ God:  yes

Can God communicate anything that isn't truth:  no

Has God communicated in His Word, the Bible:  yes

Therefore, should not we simply stick with the Bible for philosophical Truth:  yes

P.S. for you logicians, I left some precepts and argumentative steps out, please forgive me

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 12 2010 1:40 PM

Ecclesiastes meets all my Philosophical needs. The rest is just curiosity. And you know what they say about that.

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David Emme | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 12 2010 11:28 PM

I would like to offer apologies to anyone offended by my tone and thoughts in this group as my goal is not to make life miserable or so dramatic in a good community. I love Logos and do not want to make a Logos experiance negative for anyone. I am very opinionated and absloutely hyper agressive at times which I almost never see these as bad qualities-well probably because they are mine.

To Matt, I apologise for my last comments as from my view-whatever is my gut instinct is usually what I follow because I usualy have a high percentage of being right then more wrong. Part of this still might be something I am quite used to as have said before in 20 yrs of Independent Baptist Fundamentalism-I tend to see things with a colored view as quite often many times you just get so used to how a person operates where it does start slanting your view of everyone i.e. inconsistancies always discovered. when looking at this again tonite, I realized I was about a bit over the line what I wrote to matt as maybe even seen as questioning his integrity. This is not my intentions but it is what happened regaurdless of intentions. As for me, them are fighting words and thank Matt for patiance with me and putting up with me. It is obvious he is a better man then me and deeply regret calling your integrity into question. Literally, if the roles were reversed-I would be looking for blood and do not blame Matt if he was.

In the end, I really do not sweat much with all my experiances in life. Sometimes I think this is one reason why I come off as I do-swinging another way from sensitivity to apathy as quite often-still trying to wrap your head around being all blown up in Iraq when you were the most protected soldier and at times this causes me to lose focus on what is imporant as because of this-I survived by the Lords grace who has used this to teach me what I needed to know to progress to a higher view of God and a lower view of self. As everyday is a gift from God, sometimes I do tend to rub people the wrong way as in the mindset of I am still alive-some of this does not matter compared to the big picture which tends to cause me to be a bit freer-a bit hyper agressive at times(yes that is my personality-very lack and very white and a big unpassable border between the two.)

I realise some might think this is much ado about nothing and in reality-this is not that hard-until you start talking with other people. Life is almost never hard util you wake up.

On one last issue-peo[ple who know me know my love for country and those who fight and bleed for American freedom and even did a bit blood letting myself. I always get concerned because my greatest and highest experiances as will as lowest and least experiances-yes I tend to fall back on my training as nine times out of ten for me doing this has always giving me success. Saying this, this gives me no right to lift myself as more important or better because of military service. My concern is people seeing me to use it as a verbal club to beat over the head. Had a good friend point this out as I was being a bit unfair(this a few years ago) that no one can say anything to me as they cannot disparage my service to get shots in. I do not think this really came out though what I have learned because of service has. My point being-I hope noone saw this as to be used to attack others or against anyone as this is not to honorable. Sometimes I do not know what someones perception is and really the only way to bring this out is for me to talk about it recognizing when I am wrong to use that part of my life as my shield when the Lord should be our shield.

I am not big on guilt and hopefully many will see the inverse of this-not hard to admit when I am wrong.

God bless

David emme

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 11:52 AM

David Emme:
I usualy have a high percentage of being right then more wrong

Just a different perspective, not an attempt to start a debate. My perspective is that I have no reason to think I understand God's self-revelation any better than devout Jews in the first century. Therefore, while I'm confident that I have the big picture right, I have no such assurance on the small stuff - I need to constantly be questioning, doubting and learning.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 1:17 PM

David Emme:
On the other hand, realizing as long as I have been an IFB also have been a believer in Lordship Salvation and Calvinism for as long as my Baptist roots and so many times see so many talk about Calvin writing TULIP whenit was King James who initiated the Synod of Dort-Just do not think teaching a history of Systematic Theology to get them to a point where I just want them to understand-not everyone is a heretic if we have a different understanding.

David,

I really do have trouble following your thought at times.  I'm not always quite sure what the connection is between your various statements, but one thing which intrigued me which you stated a couple of times was that King Jimmy was responsible for convening the Synod of Dordt.  I had never heard that before and frankly find that rather dubious since the Synod was held in the Netherlands in response to a doctrinal controversy originating in the Netherlands though there were delegates from other countries as well (including England).  What is your source for that statement?

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:52 PM

David Emme:
Literally, if the roles were reversed-I would be looking for blood and do not blame Matt if he was.

 

David,

No offense taken. I am not walking around with a battery on my shoulder daring people to knock it off. (For you young'uns, that was a TV commercial with Robert Conrad... Googlei it.)

 As far as wanting to draw blood, Your sacrifice in Iraq is more than I deserve. Thanks & Peace to you Brother.

For the rest of your points; correct or not as you may be, your intensity rivals that of any IFB I've ever debated. BeerYesCool Relax.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 4:55 PM

Matthew C Jones:
Ecclesiastes meets all my Philosophical needs.

 

Well, Looky what showed up on the Pre-Pub list ---> http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/6220

Studies on Ecclesiastes.

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David Emme | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 6:02 PM

George Somsel:
I really do have trouble following your thought at times.  I'm not always quite sure what the connection is between your various statements, but one thing which intrigued me which you stated a couple of times was that King Jimmy was responsible for convening the Synod of Dordt.  I had never heard that before and frankly find that rather dubious since the Synod was held in the Netherlands in response to a doctrinal controversy originating in the Netherlands though there were delegates from other countries as well (including England).  What is your source for that statement?

I apologise-sometimes(and has been a problem when a younger lad in highschool doing the same thing) mainly having a certain body of knowlege and making these jumps in statements that is perfectly common sesnse to me but no one sees the jumps in logic.

Besides Logos, whenever I do research-I heavily rely on Google, particularly when doing a search-going up and setting it to look at blogs or youtube videos but most often setting this to search Google books-particularly free books which quite often on the free Google books that are downloadable on PDF format. Most times when finding a piece of information like this-I will download the resource not concerned with the title and manytimes in a miscombogulated way-not concerned where it is put on my hard drive-I have this resource to use later.

For me, it is about organizing all my pdf's downloads in a way to make it easier to find and pull what I need to share such in a forum as this-now I have an excuse to take the time to actually do this.

Yes, I do have a resource that shows theis in a book on either the history of King James or a history of england printed in the 1800's. Cannot easily pull it out of my PDF's and must now organize which I should have done all along. After sending this, I will be looking at some emails for I do remember sending a link of this resource to someone I know.

The logic is this-whether King James initiated or merely sent reps to they Synod of Dort in 1618-19-can all these Independent Fundamental Baptists judge Calvinism as heretical and still uphold the KJV as the only word of God when King James was not there but definetley involved.

The points to me made-it is one thing if I say I disagree-and when I was not a Calvinist-I always looked at Calvinism this way-I disagree, it is a different viewpoint on how we think God works in his sacred and often secret decrees-we disagree but seeing many Calvinist believers and authors as preaching the same gospel-using the same passages teaching repentance from dead works and faith in Jesus Christ and his finished work on the cross.

Once I began studying the bible alone on Calvinism and asked God to instruct me to the truth as we all desire to believe the exact correct beliefs while as for me(cannot speak for anyone else) if I be wrong-then the Lord through his Spirit and the bible instruct me which while going to a very Armenian Independent Fundamentalist Bible College is where I came to believe Calvinism. When this happened-I had the same view of Non Calvinists-we disagree on the secret decrees of God and how he works his will in salvation-but we preach the same gospel and though we disagree on not easy to understand doctrine-no matter your view-it is the grace of God which should be magnified-being a non Calvinist does not make me more knowledgable or better then those I disagree with and trying to keep the unity of Spirit as for me(not trying to brag or lift my efforts above others but feel important to mention this) probably did more evangelising as a Calvinst compared when I held Armenianism as I think quite often-Calvinists see preaching the gospel and eveangelizing as uplifting and glorifying God and his gospel. I say this because I know someone will look at this and try to take what I say and re-establish their understanding of my beliefs as I see as a bit assumptive(your a calvinist so you no longer preach the gospel or eveangelize!)

Dispite the fact I have not yet read Calvin teaching Limited Atonement(and I say this-I have not read every word Calvin wrote) but while going to some of the passages it seems Calvinists abuse as I see a bit as eisegesis as reading an understanding into John 3:16-since adopting Calvinism and once in posession of Calvin commentaries on Logos-I went to every passage both Calvinists and Armnenians use and have yet to find where Calvin preached Limited Atonement or Christ dying only for the elect.

Often I see quite a bit of abuses of knowledge and no doubt I probably have been wrong of the same accusation-but trying to figure out how one can think John Calvin originated TULIP when this happened a good 60 yrs after his death. Some will state he did not when bringing this up but in spirit he did teach limited atonement when my challange always is-please show me this. I have Logos, I have all Calvins commentaries on Logos-where did you draw this understanding from. Me, I think when people like this say these things more than likely never read one word of Calvin but just say things without knowledge.

Here is really where I run into problems with Fundamentalists non calvinists-besides the ffact TULIP was never a presentation of the gospel but an apologetic against Armenianism-how do I preach a false damming gospel when how I approach the gospel has not chenged from my Armenian days and now my Calvinist days? Besides erroneously teaching if one point of TULIP is wrong the whole thing crumbles when in rality it was never intended to be interweaved but against the five points of Armeniasm despite the fact there are 13-15 other points coming out of Synod-but yes-being an apologetic or defense against Armeniasm and stating if one falls they all fall is basically a straw man argument.

As with me(and yes, by no means am I perfect in this) if we are to be consistant in our judgements-then the very fact right now that we know King James at the very least sent representatives to the Synod of Dort-as for me I see this as a bit inconsistant to preach Calvinism is a false gospel but the KJV is the word of God-me, the consistant thing to do if one sees Calvinism as a false gospel-you better get rid of the KJV that quite a few fFundamental Baptists kling to as for me-I live the KJV just as much as the KJV only believer. Often times I will say it like this-"You better start rip[ping the pages out of your KJV if Calvinism is a false gospel"

On the same exact ideal-we also need to start ripping that name "Fundamentalists" off of our churches for just as much as dispensationalists-Calvinists were very involved with defending the faith against modernists whee besides what is in The Fundamentals of the Faith-many Calvinists including Spurgeon and Meacham did quite a bit to oppose modernism in Christianity as many saw the Calvinist Meachem absolutely the leader against modernism.

As finding BH Carrol who is vey popular in IFB churches because of his booklet, The Trail of Blood  was also a Calvinist and as I see it-we better then judge him and Spurgeon as well as a few other names I bring up who wee Calvinists in ourt country and used mightily by God-we better be consistant if we judge Calvinism as heresy.

Now, someone can maker the case that King James was more or less trying to sure up Englands influance in some nations as he foresaw war with Spain and where the Synod also took place had been at war with Spain. mainly seeing this as almost like NATO was-if you attack this country-we will fight with them anb if you fight with us-this other country will fight you to.

If this was King James motivation-me I could care less. Really, if this is what it was all about-so is it now okay to believe heresy as long as it secures our borders against invasion?

I have this resource, I do not have it readily available as I must organize my pdf library quite a bit better and will be lookong in my email as I know I sent this to some brothers in the Lord for their understanding.

To try to uphold the spirit of this forum-you can read some of Calvins commentaries in this resource: http://www.logos.com/products/details/5170 and in this resource http://www.logos.com/products/details/5161

You also can read The Fundamentals of the Faith in this resource http://www.logos.com/products/details/2182

I do have this resource and would say it will take about a week to organize my pdf collection as quite often-I am an evidance type of guy and can appreciate being challanged to produce a resource to prove my claims.

God bless

Dave Emme

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 6:40 PM

David Emme:

Besides Logos, whenever I do research-I heavily rely on Google, particularly when doing a search-going up and setting it to look at blogs or youtube videos but most often setting this to search Google books-particularly free books which quite often on the free Google books that are downloadable on PDF format. Most times when finding a piece of information like this-I will download the resource not concerned with the title and manytimes in a miscombogulated way-not concerned where it is put on my hard drive-I have this resource to use later.

For me, it is about organizing all my pdf's downloads in a way to make it easier to find and pull what I need to share such in a forum as this-now I have an excuse to take the time to actually do this.

Yes, I do have a resource that shows theis in a book on either the history of King James or a history of england printed in the 1800's. Cannot easily pull it out of my PDF's and must now organize which I should have done all along. After sending this, I will be looking at some emails for I do remember sending a link of this resource to someone I know.

I can understand not being able to find a resource when it is not in Logos.  I am patient.  Please let me know when you find it.

David Emme:
Dispite the fact I have not yet read Calvin teaching Limited Atonement(and I say this-I have not read every word Calvin wrote) but while going to some of the passages it seems Calvinists abuse as I see a bit as eisegesis as reading an understanding into John 3:16-since adopting Calvinism and once in posession of Calvin commentaries on Logos-I went to every passage both Calvinists and Armnenians use and have yet to find where Calvin preached Limited Atonement or Christ dying only for the elect.

Neither have I read every word that Calvin wrote (nor am I ever likely to do so) despite the fact that I went to Calvin College and Calvin Theological Seminary.  While Calvin is honored there, he is not the final authority.

David Emme:
On the same exact ideal-we also need to start ripping that name "Fundamentalists" off of our churches for just as much as dispensationalists-Calvinists were very involved with defending the faith against modernists whee besides what is in The Fundamentals of the Faith-many Calvinists including Spurgeon and Meacham did quite a bit to oppose modernism in Christianity as many saw the Calvinist Meachem absolutely the leader against modernism.

Yes, it was primarily the Calvinists who opposed Modernism.  A perusal of The Fundamentals will establish this. 

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 7:25 PM

David Emme:
For me, it is about organizing all my pdf's downloads in a way to make it easier to find

I find favorites in Logos to be an effective way of organizing PDF's.

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rene Atchley | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 13 2010 11:46 PM

A cursory reading of the history of theology by Tillich could lead one to conclude that theology is no more than an applied branch of philosophy.  The underlying schema of Van Til (Logos work) and Plantaga (don't know if hes in Logos) with presuppositional theology/philosophy as a foundation of contemporary Calvinism and its various other manifestations cries for more philosophical works in the Logos library.  While I am still astounded that a serious contemporary theological conversation is framed in 500 year old terms I have accepted, to a large extent, the almost backward looking nature (imo) of these conversations.  As best that I can tell modernism was a problem some 50 years ago and what I see as serious theological discussion in many mainline seminaries (i.e. political theology) is much more of a threat than any modernist.  It seems to me that a wider range of foundational philosophical works is necessary in the Logos Library in order to help equip the Body of Christ to deal with these modern Vandals at the walls of the Mother Church.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2010 12:08 AM

An introductory text, "Alvin Plantinga and Christian Apologetics" is one title in the Theological Studies Collecion in Pre-Pub http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/4534

ReneAtchley:
to deal with these modern Vandals at the walls of the Mother Church.

We could just let God annoint them with hot oil from the top of the walls.. You know, Medieval style. 

I enjoy Theology & Philosophy but the best defense against heresy is the pure undiluted Truth of God's Word.

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