Layouts taking forever to open

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Erwin Stull, Sr. | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2016 2:20 PM

Bruce Dunning:

Erwin Stull, Sr.:
That is an awful lot of SSDs for that period of time. I wonder if it may be better to just go for or stay with 7200rpm drives. Most of my drives outlast the general architecture of the machine, and that is with heavy use and barely no air conditioning.

Yes I was disappointed with the life of these drives but I could not think of using Logos without a SSD as I would spend all of my time waiting for it to index etc. which is what it used to be like.

I am so used to the indexing time being what it is, that I forgot to consider it. :-)

Once I go with an SSD (and I will at some point in time), I probably wouldn't be able to go back to standard drives either.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Sep 25 2016 5:06 PM

Dave Hooton:
Have you updated the firmware and Magician as per http://www.anandtech.com/show/9196/samsung-releases-second-840-evo-fix ?

Yes Dave, thanks for asking. I installed both and ran them. It says the health of my SSD is "Good". Afterwards, it still took 3 minutes and 5 seconds to boot up Logos to my Bible Reading Layout.

Something else is still going on.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 27 2016 9:20 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
I'll ask the desktop team to get in contact with you to help track this down.

Bradley, have you done this yet as I have not heard from anyone yet?

Also, I thought I'd give another update on things. The person who manages our computer network at work helped me do a full analysis of my laptop and determined that my laptop and my SSD and in excellent condition. But in analyzing the computer processes used when Logos is launched, Logos often said "not responding" but the disk activity was almost nothing. So, he believes that this is a Logos programming issue.

In light of this it would be great to have someone help me solve this. The last time I started Logos it took almost 4 minutes to boot and this is after I deleted all of my more complex collections. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Bruce Dunning:
Bradley, have you done this yet as I have not heard from anyone yet?

I have. The lead on this is out on vacation and won't be back for week. And then he'll probably be catching up on email for another week after that... Wink

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Sep 27 2016 4:05 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Bruce Dunning:
Bradley, have you done this yet as I have not heard from anyone yet?

I have. The lead on this is out on vacation and won't be back for week. And then he'll probably be catching up on email for another week after that... Wink

Thanks for confirming. I don't mind waiting but just wanted to make sure it was passed on to them.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 13392
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 1:50 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Bruce Dunning:
Bradley, have you done this yet as I have not heard from anyone yet?

I have. The lead on this is out on vacation and won't be back for week. And then he'll probably be catching up on email for another week after that... Wink

I'm 99% certain the issue is to do with your Layouts. You have 1,626 layouts stored in that file, and all of them are read into memory whenever layouts are needed (e.g. to populate the layouts menu).

Either (a) Faithlife will need to fix the bug that retains all your old layouts [if that is a bug], or (b) they need to fix a possible bug that seems to restart reading this file into memory if it takes too long, or (c) they need to optimise the process so that only the basic information (name) is stored in memory, and the specific information (thumbnail, layout details) is only accessed on demand, so that it can be loaded quicker.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 4:46 AM

Mark Barnes:
I'm 99% certain the issue is to do with your Layouts. You have 1,626 layouts stored in that file, and all of them are read into memory whenever layouts are needed (e.g. to populate the layouts menu).

More and more I'm also convinced that it is a layout problem. Just to be sure that others who read this are not confused I actually only have 31 saved layouts and not 1,626. What Mark is referring to is something that must be happening within the program (he calls it a bug) that automatically saves previous layouts and I guess is retaining them.

Mark, are you thinking that this "bug" might be specific to me? Otherwise, why would others not be experiencing the same thing?

Just to add another frustrating fact - after I have a layout open and I press on the "Layouts" tab, it takes over a minute for the options just to appear which is crazy. As I think back I also don't think that it was as bad in L6 compared to L7.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 13392
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 4:54 AM

Bruce Dunning:
More and more I'm also convinced that it is a layout problem. Just to be sure that others who read this are not confused I actually only have 31 saved layouts and not 1,626. What Mark is referring to is something that must be happening within the program (he calls it a bug) that automatically saves previous layouts and I guess is retaining them.

You have 31 different named layouts, but Logos is also storing previous versions of those layouts. It's particularly an issue with your Bible study layout, which you've updated hundreds of times. If you look in your layouts menu (if you can bear to click it!), and scroll through the right-hand portion, you'll see all those old versions of the layouts still there, and if you kept scrolling, I imagine you'll see all 1,626 (or at least more than 31).

I don't know whether this is a bug, or just a design decision that isn't working well for you. Personally, I no longer use layouts, and I don't know what's supposed to happen when you update a layout.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 5:23 AM

Mark Barnes:
I don't know whether this is a bug, or just a design decision that isn't working well for you.

Thanks for your explanation Mark. The layout that it used the most often is my Bible Reading layout which I use every day as I choose different ways to read through it each year. It will be interesting to speak with the Faithlife team about this issue and perhaps I will find out if it is a bug or a design decision. Either way, I do hope it can be fixed.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 809
Cynthia in Florida | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 5:25 AM

Bruce Dunning:

Mark Barnes:
I'm 99% certain the issue is to do with your Layouts. You have 1,626 layouts stored in that file, and all of them are read into memory whenever layouts are needed (e.g. to populate the layouts menu).

More and more I'm also convinced that it is a layout problem. Just to be sure that others who read this are not confused I actually only have 31 saved layouts and not 1,626. What Mark is referring to is something that must be happening within the program (he calls it a bug) that automatically saves previous layouts and I guess is retaining them.

Mark, are you thinking that this "bug" might be specific to me? Otherwise, why would others not be experiencing the same thing?

Just to add another frustrating fact - after I have a layout open and I press on the "Layouts" tab, it takes over a minute for the options just to appear which is crazy. As I think back I also don't think that it was as bad in L6 compared to L7.

Bruce:  I'm experiencing the same problem and I do NOT have all those collections or layouts.

Cynthia

Romans 8:28-38

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 5:43 AM

Mark Barnes:

You have 31 different named layouts, but Logos is also storing previous versions of those layouts. It's particularly an issue with your Bible study layout, which you've updated hundreds of times. If you look in your layouts menu (if you can bear to click it!), and scroll through the right-hand portion, you'll see all those old versions of the layouts still there, and if you kept scrolling, I imagine you'll see all 1,626 (or at least more than 31).

I've always been curious about these layouts on the right side - I figured they were previous versions but I was afraid to delete them in case I deleted my actual layout. To experiment, I created a test layout and updated it a few times - a new version appears on the right every time I did so. If I deleted all but the latest version, the saved layout would remain. If I deleted the latest version, the saved layout would be deleted as well. The versions are time-stamped so you can see which is the latest etc.  With this new knowledge, I filtered my layouts by name (I only have 9 saved layouts) and deleted all previous versions. I'll now do this on a regular basis; at any given time I want the number of versions to match the number of actual saved layouts.

Mark Barnes:

Personally, I no longer use layouts, and I don't know what's supposed to happen when you update a layout.

If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious how you use Logos and don't use layouts.

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 5:45 AM

Cynthia in Florida:
Bruce:  I'm experiencing the same problem and I do NOT have all those collections or layouts.

Cynthia, thanks for letting me know. I feel that I have some company now. Not sure if you are experiencing the same thing but I hope it gets resolved for you too.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 13392
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 6:36 AM

Yasmin Stephen:
If you don't mind sharing, I'm curious how you use Logos and don't use layouts.

Many years ago I used to use layouts. Like many people, I'd have specific layouts for different types of study.

However, ultimately, I found layouts to be unhelpful. All they really do is open a bunch of resources, most of which I don't need at the moment. I'd rather a more fluid approach to study, where my 'layout' constantly evolves depending on where I am in the process. The advantages of this are considerable:

  • My entire screen is dedicated to what I'm working on at the exact moment. I don't have lots of panels/tabs open "just in case".
  • With a fixed layout, I'm likely to consult a limited range of books, and forget to think whether others would be helpful.
  • I have more freedom to develop a study in the direction dictated by the text, rather than according to a formula that I usually follow.
  • Moving about is normally quicker, as I tend not to have linked panels that I only occasionally need.

So generally, I'll begin with a 'layout' that is simply a single bible. Nothing else. If I need more versions, I have several one-click multiview shortcuts to bring them up.

At some point I'll want to consult lexicons, and can fire my preferred lexicon in three clicks. If I need more lexicons, I double-click the blank space next to the new tab button. If I need even more info, I can fire up a custom BWS, which has quick links to lexicons, roots, and searching.

At another point I'll want to consult commentaries. I can close all my lexicons in two clicks, and fire up my custom passage guide in a few more. That gives me quick links to all my commentaries. I'll generally consult at least 7-10 in a study, which is generally too many to have open in a layout, anyway. If I need to do some searches to check what I'm reading, I can drag a search panel to the bottom-half of my bible.

The "secret" to working like this is (a) custom guides that are designed for specific situations, and (b) multiview shortcuts. By having several well-designed guides, I can very quickly open all the resources you probably open in a layout, without needing them permanently open, cluttering my display, and can pretty seamlessly switch between a word study, exegesis of a larger section, or theological study, as my needs dictate.

Posts 959
Yasmin Stephen | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 8:32 AM

Mark Barnes:

The "secret" to working like this is (a) custom guides that are designed for specific situations, and (b) multiview shortcuts. By having several well-designed guides, I can very quickly open all the resources you probably open in a layout, without needing them permanently open, cluttering my display, and can pretty seamlessly switch between a word study, exegesis of a larger section, or theological study, as my needs dictate.

Thank you - this response is very helpful! As I'm dedicating more time to both Bible study and learning to use Logos better, I do find that layouts get in my way sometimes (especially if it becomes too cluttered and I find myself alternately docking and floating resources), and I was only this week thinking that having a Passage Guide open in a layout leads to duplication in some areas.

For my morning devotional routine, I do need a layout because I mostly access the same resources every day (Bible, devotional, prayer lists, etc). For Bible study, I definitely see how guides could be the better way to go for me; for some reason, I haven’t used the guides much. I'll work on that. Also, I hadn't given thought to using multiview shortcuts - I like the feature and having a few set up as one-clicks would be a good enhancement to my process.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 9:45 AM

Mark Barnes:

You have 31 different named layouts, but Logos is also storing previous versions of those layouts.

That was educational. Since Logos is relatively new for me, I only had a single layout with about 20-30 previous versions of it. I went though and deleted those old versions that Logos had been keeping around.

How many of us need to revert back to an old version of a layout from months ago?

Perhaps the program should prune older versions for us, to avoid ending up with hundreds of versions for a single layout, or slowdowns which may result from that.

My top three Logos 9 Wishlist items: Carta, Dark mode, and Hebrew audio bible, please.

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 11:33 AM

Bruce or Mark,

Could you email Bruce's layouts.db to testing@faithlife.com (or a Dropbox download link or some way to retrieve the file)? We'd like to take a look at it here too.

Posts 604
Bill Shewmaker | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 4:08 PM

Not sure if this will help or not, but I just checked on my layout history and I have layouts that date back to December 2009 (and they still open). This is not the saved layouts, but the layout history. So I'm guessing that most of these can be deleted without problem. Almost 7 years of layouts is beyond belief.

Posts 2200
GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 6:51 PM

1. Is it the actual saved layouts or the historical layouts or both that may cause the slowdown?

2. If I dare ask, can a really brave person mass delete unneeded records from the appropriate db file without creating havoc in the database, index and syncing and such?  (Not having extra time, I am not feeling very courageous to experiment at the moment).    

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Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 7:23 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

Bruce or Mark,

Could you email Bruce's layouts.db to testing@faithlife.com (or a Dropbox download link or some way to retrieve the file)? We'd like to take a look at it here too.

I don't think that I am able to email a file that is 85 MB. The last time Mark gave me a dropbox link that I used to send it to him. It might be easier for him to send it to you but I might be able to figure it out if needed.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Sep 28 2016 10:25 PM

Gao Lu:
If I dare ask, can a really brave person mass delete unneeded records from the appropriate db file without creating havoc in the database, index and syncing and such?

Not really. 

You could remove the row from your local database, but that won't automatically be recorded as a "delete" in sync, so the layout won't truly be deleted. (It might not reappear on that machine immediately, but it would come back down from sync if you reinstalled.)

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