Logos on eInk/eReader Device

Kevin Byford (Faithlife) said:

I believe the intent here is to gauge whether or not it would be worth adding possible support (given enough interest) for certain things that might make the E-Ink experience a little better, like hardware navigation button support, better contrast, animation and progress indicator settings, etc.

Thank you for looking into this.

A video is nice but it is not all that clear what is shown through it. It looks like a normal mobile app, but with perhaps better contrast? If there are certain specific things we are supposed to notice, it would be good to point them out more specifically. Also, it should be kept in mind that a video of a device display is never as crisp as the device itself. So it is difficult to see how nicely text and icons are display (knowing that all along the issue has been one of contrast, sharpness, and translating colour-dependent elements into a workable e-ink alternative). 

I assume also that while the Icarus has the advantage of allowing installation, the e-ink version (if one is indeed developed and supported) would work on any e-ink android device on which the apk can be installed?

Trying to follow the conversation and seeing "(this device can install our apps from Google Play - one of the very few)"... is there a fairly new e-ink device I could buy, say at Amazon, that does have Google Play and I can install the latest Android version of Logos? 

I am interested in this discussion, but want to refrain from buying a device until I know that the Logos app will be supported for it.  

Another idea would be to make a webpage like "app.logos.com" that e-readers (like the Paperwhite with its experimental browser) could actually use.  It wouldn't need to have the full functionality of Biblia, but something where a person could access his library, highlight and make brief notes.  I think this is all a person would want to do on an e-reader.

The only problem with the webpage idea is that people outside of a wifi area would have to tether their devices to their phones to make it useable. 

The hardware looks sluggish - bring back Send to Kindle!

Brother Mark said:

Daniel Di Bartolo said:

we're just trying to gauge general interest. 

Yep, I'm interested.

Yes I am interested.  For now, the only hope I have is to get a surface pro 5 which will give full function ability.  And I save my eyes by dimming the screen and using new technology that make reading easier.

Yes... I terribly miss the "Send to Kindle" feature.  My guess is the reason lies with Amazon, not Faithlife.   

Kevin Byford (Faithlife) said:

This thread isn't about Send to Kindle but about running the full Logos App on an E-Ink device, and whether or not there is enough customer interest for us to potentially improve the experience.

I would think there is a better way to measure whether there is enough interest in improving the  Logos App on an E ink device than going to a forum thread.  Why not send your user base an email with a link to a basic, brief survey that measures whether there is interest or not?

I have run the Verbum app on the Boyue T62+ and the Onyx Boox C67ML. The Icarus you have here is similar to these two. In fact, I believe that the Icarus is actually a rebranded Boyue device. The Verbum/Logos app runs pretty well, as a rule, on these devices. I would be interested in seeing if something could be done with contrast and colors, as some links come up as very light gray on an eInk device. Maybe a grayscale theme that could be selected to replace the default color scheme? This would also help with highlighting. 

A second way that our FL team could help improve the mobile app experience on an eInk device would be to see if the app could interface with the physical page turn buttons on devices that have such buttons. That could make page-turning and scrolling easier. Some Android reading apps do work with the physical page turn buttons, while others do not. 

Like others have said, my main concern is that all these eInk devices run Android 4.2.2.  As of now, this is not a problem for the Logos/Verbum mobile app. It could be a problem if the mobile app requires a newer Android version. One possible way around this would be if Logos/Verbum Now continues to develop its website, so that one could use one's browser to access one's library, run a passage guide, and so on with an eInk device. 

Another problem is that some eInk devices seem to lack some hardware acceleration functions that the mobile app requires. The Onyx Boox C67ML runs the Logos/Verbum app just fine, while the Onyx i86 does not. Not all eInk devices are created equal. Anyone who wants to buy an Android eInk device with the intent of running the Logos/Verbum app needs to be aware of this. 

I am interested. I had an early version of the logos app working on a e-ink nook years ago. I think simple things to make e-ink work better; physical button support, better color dithering, turning off animations, would help us get even more value out of our logos investment. 

NYSERVANT said:

Would it be crazy to have a "logos reader" that is a designated device? Not sure how all that works but just throwing that kind of an idea out

Not crazy at all! The folks at Logos could approach one of the companies that makes Android eInk devices and request a custom device that meets certain specs (recent Android version, generous internal storage, for example). If enough Logos users are interested and willing to buy into such a device, one of these companies might be willing to do it. If users of other Bible software Android apps were interested, that increases the potential market even more. It's a bit of a long shot, but not impossible by any means.  Actually, for some of these devices, a custom device might mean simply a more recent version of Android (5.0? 6.0?) to insure long-term compatibility with the Logos app. However, if the Logos app can maintain its current minimum requirement of Android 4.1, we're good with what's out there now.  

Now that I think of it, the Nook Glowlight Plus runs Android 4.4.  However, it would need some kind of hardware or settings upgrade to run Logos. People who have tried it get the infamous black screen when they open many resources. But the folks at B&N could use more customers for their device, so maybe they would be open to some dialogue about this.  

Yes, that would be an excellent reading experience!

NK said:

Definitely interested.  Wondering if one of the big guys (A or B&N) would be interested in selling some of their hardware to FL.  Answer:  Unlikely.

Sure they wouldn't. They're competitors.

"Small guys" that primarily focus on hardware, would be a lot more likely. Onyx has produced branded devices for ebook companies before. Icarus might possibly do the same.

I'd be highly interested in running the Logos app on an up to date eInk device, however, only under two conditions:

1. minimum Android 5.0, so that ongoing support for another couple of years is secured.

2. SD card support so that a large portion of my library would fit on it.

A connector for ear plugs would be a nice bonus.

Just another thought...

Why not explore having your own "kindle app" that an be installed on any tablet, phone, desktop that would have the functionality where we could download resources we own and read them in that app.  Why cant the Vysro app for example be the reading app that (like Kindle), can be installed on many devices.  Kindle would not allow such an app on their machine.  I understand that.  Apple and Microsoft also might not allow such an app on their systems.  But android e readers would.  This would be very appealing to many.  We already have an app for tablets and phones.  Why cant that same app be available for android e readers?

Fr Devin Roza said:

I am very interested in using an e-reader for the app, and was hoping to buy an e-reader specifically for Verbum this year. I was very happy to see an unofficial suggestion of a good e-reader for the Verbum / Logos app... and am now sad to see that unofficial recommendation taken back.

Don't worry about it too much. If support ends in 6 months, that doesn't mean the reader/Verbum app will stop working from one day to the next.

All that's gonna happen is that you won't receive any app updates/new features, and that any resources that are released after Android 4.2 end of support can't be installed on the device.

If you're interested in using an e-reader, just go for it. It's agreat investment.

I'm still running an ancient Logos version on my Android 2.3 device, and it's still just about sufficient for daily use. More than 95% of resources are still running on that system, even most of what came with L7 Bronze.

Daniel Di Bartolo said:

....

Thanks for your candid, detailed feedback. We'll use it to fuel our further discussions and will make sure to let you know if we come across a really good option for you in the future. 

Cheers,

-Daniel Di Bartolo, Mobile Product Manager

Daniel... Please do.  Let us know if FL has come across "a good option." 

Agree !

"a simplified version of the app solely for book reading" -- I'm all for it.

Thanks,

-Andley.

mab said:

I do like the idea of a e-ink reader for Logos resources

An e-ink reader would be so much easier on the eyes.  It would make it possible to read your books anywhere, including outside in bright light. 

And being "touch screen" friendly would be so helpful.  For example, on my touch screen computer, I will be reading a Logos book, using my finger to scroll through the pages.  Then it quits scrolling.  I have to use the little slide on the side of the window to get it to start scrolling again.  Most annoying.  Logos is just not well designed for reading purposes, which is kind of important when you are selling "books".

Here's what a passage guide looks like. The colored headings are a bit faded on eInk, but not too bad.I

H

Steve Farson said:

Mark... Does the Onyx C67 come with Google Play and can one install the latest version of Android Logos without rooting?  Thx.

Hi, Steve,

Yes, the C67ML Carta 2 comes with Google Play. (I typed out the full name because there are several C67 models out there.) When I first signed in, I didn't have the latest version of Google Play, but the Store updated itself soon enough. 

You can install the latest version of Logos without rooting. Let me add a precaution. The main weakness of the C67 series is that its user data partition (where your installed apps go) is only 350MB. Google Play Store and Google Play Services take up a chunk of that space. You can move portions of your installed apps to the internal sd card without rooting. That helps, to a point. I say this because it won't take many apps to fill up that space, and Google Play won't install the Logos app unless you have at least 150MB of free space in that partition. It can also make updating the Logos app a pain if your app partition is too full. Without rooting the C67, there's not much one can do about that limitation. 

Nevertheless, if you plan to use an eInk device only for Logos and eBooks, this device will serve you well. The C67 comes with a couple of pre-installed reader apps for eBooks, and they work fine. The C67 plays nicely with Calibre.  Moon Reader also works well. You may have your own favored reading app. 

If you want to install a number of apps, however, I'd recommend something like the Boyue T62+. It gives you 1GB of user app space.  It's similar in most respects to the C67, expect it has a 212 dpi screen. A newer T63 may be out soon with 300 dpi, though. 

Steve Farson said:

Mark... Thanks much!  Will use the 67L only for Logos/reading.  Appreciate your insight and experience... Steve

You're very welcome! In that case, the C67 should work out just fine for you. It's light - even in its case - so it's easy to hold for long reading sessions. Logos works well on it. If you want to do more research, check out the MobileRead forums.