Counterpoints Software Sale: $7 Apiece at Olive Tree and Accordance

Page 2 of 6 (111 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last ยป
This post has 110 Replies | 4 Followers

Posts 7745
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 2:33 PM

To say there's been a few slip-offs is an understatement! Especially when a lot of stuff gets included in Base Packages even before they make it out of prepub. Just admit it, your policy is flawed in so many ways that is practically a joke to try to honor it and it makes you look bad.

DAL

Ps.  Sorry Ben, I don't mean this in a bad way but, please, get up to speed because we've been told that the main purpose of the prepub program is to help get books published in the Logos platform and not to get the lowest price ever (Yes, "the lowest price ever" quote got removed a long time ago).  Therefore since a lot of books don't get sufficient funds (prepub orders) to get publish they get removed from the prepub program.  If this wasn't the case, then Logos would just go ahead and publish books regardless of whether people ordered them or not.  So you should make it clear for people to understand that when they place a pre-pub order they are just helping get the book published in Logos format  and that they are getting a good price but they shouldn't get upset if the publisher decides to sell it at an even lower price a few days or months later after it releases.  There, I just poked a huge hole in the pre-pup program's "honor policy!" Now let it die and let us help you make some money in the process by purchasing the resources that go on publisher's sales!

Posts 3988
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 2:53 PM

Ben Amundgaard:

PetahChristian:

I hope that policy can be revisited, as such an arbitrary restriction locks other Logos users out from publisher promotions, and hurts the relationship between Faithlife, publishers, and users.

We do plan to revisit the policy in the new year. We just want to make sure we've worked out all the details so we can reset customers expectations accurately and spell the terms out clearly.

It seems that many "expectations" aren't really favorable to us:

  • Publisher collections aren't eligible for dynamic pricing,
  • Publisher resources are prohibited from discounts,
  • Publisher resources can't be included in base packages, and now
  • Faithlife won't undercut pre-pub pricing.

Whether we call them terms, restrictions, or policy, whether they're governed by contract or arbitrary business model, I would think that fewer unfavorable terms would be better for everyone.

  • The publisher is happy when I buy and use their resource, when it's on sale.
  • Faithlife is happy that I'm using a Logos resource, instead of reading the book in a competitor's program, because it was cheaper there.
  • I'm happy that I can study and learn, instead of putting specific courses/purchases on hold for a year or two until some infrequent sale occurs in the first place.

Even the whole notion of "ebook" verses digital bible software edition is absurd. For example, the NIVAC is currently on sale for $4.99/volume, if you want to buy the ebook edition, but the Logos editions are not on sale. Please, let's make it easier to access resources within Logos, instead of forcing people to go outside the program.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 1526
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 2:54 PM

Logos still hasn't updated to carry a newish one I want, Genesis: History, Fiction, or Neither?

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 72
Andrew116 | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 2:58 PM

Again can someone point me to where this "expectation" has been created?

and find me one person who wants the alleged "expectation" kept?

Unless someone comes forward who wants the price to stay high, I think you are free to drop the attempt to "honor" expectations and just give everybody the publisher sale.

Posts 928
LogosEmployee

Thank you all for your feedback on this. As we review the current pre-pub program, we will try to address all the concerns you've raised (many of which we've already been discussing).

Director, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 7745
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 4:29 PM

Ben Amundgaard:

Thank you all for your feedback on this. As we review the current pre-pub program, we will try to address all the concerns you've raised (many of which we've already been discussing).

Run Ben, run!!! Alright, we'll leave you alone. Is not entirely your fault anyway. ๐Ÿ˜‚๐Ÿ˜œ๐Ÿ˜

Posts 928
LogosEmployee

DAL:
Alright, we'll leave you alone.

Thanks, DAL! Smile

Director, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 3988
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 5:20 PM

Ben Amundgaard:

Thank you all for your feedback on this. As we review the current pre-pub program, we will try to address all the concerns you've raised (many of which we've already been discussing).

Hopefully you will have some good news to report, Ben, not merely thanks for the feedback. Some issues haven't changed in over two years, despite posts from FL acknowledging the issue.

I like the pre-pub program, and have a lot of orders on pre-pub, but it's especially frustrating when a pre-pub ships and there's a problem FL doesn't even acknowledge, or commit to fix.

Other times, a problem is acknowledged, but FL needs to determine how to solve it. The waiting game isn't enjoyable, when FL has my money, and I am at FL's mercy to fix a resource problem. (Returning a course isn't a practical option, unless FL lets us buy the course again at pre-pub prices once the initial issues are fixed.)

I really like Logos. I wish general issues like this could be fixed as quickly as bug fixes and new features get rolled out.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 4284
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 6:24 PM

Yes thank you for responding. I'm hoping in the future you will honor publisher sales

Posts 2684
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 8:35 PM

Four Views of Baptism was even free in the past, which is also lower than pre pub.

(Does the policy actually imply that no resource that has ever been on pre pub can become free...??)

So this is really a shame. I'm sure I would have picked up two or three of those. I really enjoyed Four Views of Baptism.

Past IT Consultant. Past Mission Worker. Entrepreneur. Future Seminary Student.
Why Amazon sucks: Full background story of my legal dispute with the online giant

Posts 666
Ted Weis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 8:58 PM

Ben Amundgaard:

PetahChristian:

I hope that policy can be revisited, as such an arbitrary restriction locks other Logos users out from publisher promotions, and hurts the relationship between Faithlife, publishers, and users.

We do plan to revisit the policy in the new year. We just want to make sure we've worked out all the details so we can reset customers expectations accurately and spell the terms out clearly.

IMHO, a certain amount of time should pass where a pre-pub price is protected from low-ball sales; that rewards early birds, who have the product earlier and longer to use. But after that set time, the product should be sold for any price that vendors desire.

Last year, some ICC commentaries could be had for $1.99. I don't think they were ever that cheap in pre-pub. And last November, the Hermeneia Matthew volumes were free and 1.99. That's below the pre-pub price I'm sure.

In sum the reason given for Counterpoint not offered by Logos sounds doesn't add up.

Posts 30918
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Nov 8 2016 9:12 PM

PetahChristian:

Can you give some examples? I've had good luck at getting major production problems fixed quickly as far as I recall.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 689
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 9 2016 2:33 AM

Ben Amundgaard:

Thank you all for your feedback on this. As we review the current pre-pub program, we will try to address all the concerns you've raised (many of which we've already been discussing).

If you're taking feedback, then I'd just like to add my confused & upset face to the mix. This policy sounds utterly absurd to me - I'd assumed it was down to your company's finances - wanting to protect your prices etc, and I was totally happy with that. The idea that you'd charge everyone more than necessary because you think it improves the customer experience, though? Ugh.

If I buy a discounted item and I've had it in my library for more than the 30 day return window, I can take the fact that prices change, and I can take it much more happily than I could take the idea that supporting books at the prepub stage negatively impacts future buyers.

Posts 3988
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 9 2016 5:23 AM

MJ. Smith:

Can you give some examples? I've had good luck at getting major production problems fixed quickly as far as I recall.

I have not found any major production problems. The minor inconveniences involve non-availability of resources used by new Mobile Ed courses, as well as lack of dynamic pricing for resources that upcoming Mobile Ed courses will use.

I can't even get a response to a pricing issue that I posted about before this Mobile Ed sale, or an answer about this Kings of Israel bundle that uses resources which offer no dynamic pricing.

I've already posted/provided examples, but will be happy to take the time to provide them again, if someone cares to fix the issues.

I don't know if any Mobile Ed issues I've encountered will get fixed, quickly or at all. Time will tell.

I do understand that it is much easier for FL to put their own products on sale, but most of the resources we want or need tend to come from other publishers. Any policies or terms that prohibit publisher sales (or bundling or dynamic pricing) hurt FL, us, and the publisher.

Bible study software is beneficial, but much patience and money is required to expand its library. I hope FL will not neglect the value of passing on savings to us.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 1032
Mike Pettit | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 9 2016 6:31 AM

This ignores the elephant in the room in that stuff goes on prepub then is included in base packages at a fraction of that price.

For this reason I have pretty much stopped buying on pre pub, as I would have saved a fortune if I had just waited for a base package incuded such items.

This is in my view why the pricing model is flawed from a customers perspective.

Posts 2106
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 9 2016 6:39 AM

Mike Pettit:

This ignores the elephant in the room in that stuff goes on prepub then is included in base packages at a fraction of that price.

For this reason I have pretty much stopped buying on pre pub, as I would have saved a fortune if I had just waited for a base package incuded such items.

This is in my view why the pricing model is flawed from a customers perspective.

Thank you Mike for this information.  It was something I wondered about.  It will change my buying habits.

Posts 4284
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 9 2016 6:43 AM

I agree Mike and I feel like FL is pushing this into a corner and saying they'll look at in the future (which who knows when that will be as Logos 7 Bundles are still in the wind) and will forget about it. 

I'm also annoyed that they said the Zondervan sale mistakenly happened a few months ago.  Why would you not want your customers to get great resources at prices being handed down by a publisher who rarely gives deals (no dynamic pricing)?  It makes no sense to say well X amount of people got this at one price Y years ago so no more sales ever on this.  I can't imagine or think of a business that does this today.  We have a 30 day return window.  If a sale comes return and rebuy but to walk into a store 6 months later and demand a refund because something went on sale is ludicrous.  Something smells fishy here.  I know my opinion may not be the right one but if FL truly cares about their customers they would offer deals from publishers.  If it is a money issue be honest about it and offer the sale where you can afford it but to hide behind this prepub business is silly

Posts 2137
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 9 2016 8:25 AM

You guys have broken that promise several times.  The last major one I can remember is when the Zondervan languages collection went on sale for less than prepub not too long ago.  

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 689
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 9 2016 8:53 AM

Joseph Turner:

You guys have broken that promise several times.  The last major one I can remember is when the Zondervan languages collection went on sale for less than prepub not too long ago.  

More worrying is the idea that they'd make the promise in the first place - I just don't get why they'd do it. If I buy a book in Pre-pub, I'm doing it because I want the book, not gloating rights about the bargain price I got. I don't mind if other people pay less than me, provided that there's a reason for it. I do mind denying the sale to others because you're worried that I'll be spiteful about it.

Posts 4284
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Nov 9 2016 9:21 AM

James McAdams:

Joseph Turner:

You guys have broken that promise several times.  The last major one I can remember is when the Zondervan languages collection went on sale for less than prepub not too long ago.  

More worrying is the idea that they'd make the promise in the first place - I just don't get why they'd do it. If I buy a book in Pre-pub, I'm doing it because I want the book, not gloating rights about the bargain price I got. I don't mind if other people pay less than me, provided that there's a reason for it. I do mind denying the sale to others because you're worried that I'll be spiteful about it.

I agree (if that hasn't been obvious by this point)... I also don't remember anyone complaining about the Zondervan sale and crying about how people are getting NIDNTTE at a cheaper price

Page 2 of 6 (111 items) < Previous 1 2 3 4 5 Next > ... Last ยป | RSS