Please restore 7.1 Courses tool functionality which showed all Mobile Ed reading requirements

Prior to 7.2, it was very easy to buy missing resources for courseware right within Logos, before starting a courseware plan.

In 7.2, the only required resource now listed for a course is the courseware itself. All the readings are no longer listed in the requirements list.

Would you please restore the prior behavior, to let us again see which resources we have (or need) for any courseware we own.

On an unrelated note, would you also please restore showing courses we don't own, and list them under the "Unavailable" heading?

Thank you for your consideration!

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NB.Mick

[Y]

David K. Alexander

Agree with PetahChristian on this subject 100%.

Mattillo

I wonder why they would take that away

Eli Evans (Logos)

I wonder why they would take that away

Mobile Ed courses have two levels of resource content: 1) Resources that are truly required, that is, necessary in order to complete the course, and 2) resources that are suggested, but not required.

7.0 listed all of the resources referred to by the course regardless of whether they fall into category 1 or 2. This also caused confusion, because truthfully, if a resource contributes only one suggested reading, it's not really "required" for the course. Other users complained that they weren't seeing Mobile Ed courses that they ought to be able to take while skipping the suggested readings they don't own.

7.2 ships with an update that lets the course designer create a hand-picked list of truly required resources, leaving any others as incidental or bonus content. What's showing in the list of required resources now is this hand-picked list. 7.2 also lists all available courses for all users, broken into categories to show which ones you fully own resources for, which you partially own, and which you don't own at all. The intent of both these updates is to make it easier to select courses that mesh well with your library.

In making the information more focused on true requirements, it seems that we stopped showing some information that you-all found useful, so I agree that we should also list the additional resources, in another section, so we can show which ones you could purchase to get 100% coverage rather than just "required" coverage. That is now officially on our list of things to consider. Thanks (and sorry)!

MJ. Smith

7.2 also lists all available courses for all users,

This does not appear to be true ... or there is some misunderstanding as to what you mean ... see screen shots above.

PetahChristian

Mobile Ed courses have two levels of resource content: 1) Resources that are truly required, that is, necessary in order to complete the course, and 2) resources that are suggested, but not required.

This is actually a pet peeve. I don't like buying a course, then discovering that some of its resources are unavailable, even if they are not required. To pay "full price" for something, yet only be possible to complete a "portion" of what I paid for, doesn't seem right or fair. If you charge "100%," we should be able to complete "100%," required or not.

7.0 listed all of the resources referred to by the course regardless of whether they fall into category 1 or 2. This also caused confusion, because truthfully, if a resource contributes only one suggested reading, it's not really "required" for the course. Other users complained that they weren't seeing Mobile Ed courses that they ought to be able to take while skipping the suggested readings they don't own.

7.2 ships with an update that lets the course designer create a hand-picked list of truly required resources, leaving any others as incidental or bonus content. What's showing in the list of required resources now is this hand-picked list. 7.2 also lists all available courses for all users, broken into categories to show which ones you fully own resources for, which you partially own, and which you don't own at all. The intent of both these updates is to make it easier to select courses that mesh well with your library.

In making the information more focused on true requirements, it seems that we stopped showing some information that you-all found useful, so I agree that we should also list the additional resources, in another section, so we can show which ones you could purchase to get 100% coverage rather than just "required" coverage. That is now officially on our list of things to consider. Thanks (and sorry)!

Thanks for a detailed response, Eli!

I'm a little concerned that some new "hand-picked" list is being introduced:

If you leave it up to the content creator as to decide what truly merits appearing on the Course tool requirements, and omit the incidental/bonus content, it prevents the customer from deciding what they do or don't want to buy and/or read.
We already have the existing ZZNNN Resources Linked spreadsheet. The spreadsheet is already broken down into "Suggested" and "Optional" sections, as you know. Introducing a different list of requirements will only lead to confusion, when the two lists don't line up, and it creates more work and more chance of errors, maintaining two lists (even if they are "automatically" generated).

Personally, I find that 90% of what I learn comes from all the readings. Many people suggest readings aren't truly required, but I'd have learned far less if I skipped some of them, even if others considered them incidental. (We're all at different levels of knowledge. What some experts consider incidental might be a point I hadn't been taught by anyone else.)

I can see the benefit of adding a different section, to distinguish between truly required and completely optional reading. (Personally, I've been using the spreadsheet number of links values to make that determination, but it's not completely accurate to judge by quantity of links. Someone might link to a resource only once, but the reading might include a significant number of pages or key material.)

Either way, it's useful to see all the resources. Thanks for adding them back on the list!

PetahChristian

7.2 also lists all available courses for all users,

I only see Mobile.Ed courses that I own. I expected to also see courses I don't own, returning in 7.2, but there's no "Partially unavailable" or "Unavailable" sections for courseware. Is this a bug that needs to be reported?

As I have a number of courses on my "wish list," part of my buying decision is how many resources I already have for a course I hadn't bought.

Seeing all (unavailable as well as available) courses is very useful, and the behavior I assumed would return for 7.2

Eli Evans (Logos)

This is actually a pet peeve. I don't like buying a course, then discovering that some of its resources are unavailable, even if they are not required. To pay "full price" for something, yet only be possible to complete a "portion" of what I paid for, doesn't seem right or fair. If you charge "100%," we should be able to complete "100%," required or not.

PD101 resource no longer available

NT314 resource no longer available

BI301 resource no longer available

ET101 Resource no longer available

I forwarded your concerns to the Mobile Ed team.

Simon’s Brother

I wonder why they would take that away

7.2 ships with an update that lets the course designer create a hand-picked list of truly required resources, leaving any others as incidental or bonus content. What's showing in the list of required resources now is this hand-picked list. 7.2 also lists all available courses for all users, broken into categories to show which ones you fully own resources for, which you partially own, and which you don't own at all. The intent of both these updates is to make it easier to select courses that mesh well with your library.

This hand picked list is s poor decision for my needs, I don't want somebody who does not know me or what I want to get out of these courses determine what I should or should not see listed. Everything should be listed. Just because only one reading in the whole course comes from that resource does not mean that reading is not going to be valuable to me. I really don't understand how as designers you come up with some of these decisions.

Eli Evans (Logos)

This hand picked list is s poor decision for my needs, I don't want somebody who does not know me or what I want to get out of these courses determine what I should or should not see listed. Everything should be listed. Just because only one reading in the whole course comes from that resource does not mean that reading is not going to be valuable to me. I really don't understand how as designers you come up with some of these decisions.

As I said, the mistake we made was to only show one of the two lists. That we can fix. (FWIW, we were responding to feedback from other users that listing EVERYTHING as required was causing them to skip over courses -- more importantly, causing us in some circumstances to de-list courses -- they could profitably take w/o having every book.)

I'm going to stick to my guns that the course designer has to decide what's core to the course objectives and what's incidental or bonus material. In my experience, having a required reading list and a suggested reading list is pretty standard publishing and pedagogical practice, and it's always intrinsic to the course and its objectives, which don't vary, and not the students' interests, which do.

FWIW, I'm super glad that everyone is getting a lot of good value out of the suggested readings.

Philana R. Crouch

Prior to 7.2, it was very easy to buy missing resources for courseware right within Logos, before starting a courseware plan.

In 7.2, the only required resource now listed for a course is the courseware itself. All the readings are no longer listed in the requirements list.

Would you please restore the prior behavior, to let us again see which resources we have (or need) for any courseware we own.

On an unrelated note, would you also please restore showing courses we don't own, and list them under the "Unavailable" heading?

Thank you for your consideration!

PetahChristian,

This was added back in for 7.3 (7.3.0.0031)

PetahChristian

This was added back in for 7.3 (7.3.0.0031)

Thanks very much, especially for the improvements!