I'm upset with the new Logos 7.3 about information

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This post has 108 Replies | 6 Followers

Posts 297
Mike McKnelly | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Dec 20 2016 9:16 AM

I've been with logos since it came on a few floppy disks. I own over 1300 resources and purchased logos seven cross grade and am a logos now subscriber since its beginning. Yet it is implied in the above screenshot with the red X that I am a lower-class user because I don't have a logos seven library. I am a layperson and I choose to buy the books that I really need rather than ones that I will never look at. Please let me know your opinion on this issue.

Posts 5615
Todd Phillips | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 9:21 AM

I agree.  It's annoying, plus it shows less info than before.  Previously it showed the largest library purchased, now it's just a binary value:  L7 library or not.  Neither way is useful--they need to show a list of libraries. 

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Posts 1083
Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 9:30 AM

Mike I am also not that happy with this either, I have Logos 7 Standard Platinum. But the about info only gives me credit having a Logos 7 library.. For the longest time it just showed that I had Logos 6 Reformed Platinum at least this has been changed. I would like the software to reflect the current base package that I have upgraded to and paid for.

This is the 6th base package I have now and Logos / FL could at least acknowledge that yes you do have Logos 7 Platinum within the software.

L4 Bible Study, L5 Reformed Bronze, & L5 Gold, L6 Platinum & Reformed Platinum, L7 Platinum, L8 Baptist Platinum.
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Posts 10456
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 9:31 AM

Mike, my apologies, but that is so funny. Usually businesses try to over-emphasize a customers love for their product. Logos really goes out of its way to insure you know you're NOT a Logos-lover. Unless you click that pretty blue link!

I'm guessing they'll give me a no-library, since my last package was asked to commit seppiku in the late 2009's.


Posts 1844
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 9:46 AM

Mike, thanks for the feedback. And thanks for being a longtime customer! Our intent is not to make anyone feel like a lower-class customer. I'm sorry the design made you feel that way.

First, let me say that this is not the final design for this feature. We'd like to show more information than "pre-Logos 7." Ideally, we'd show your latest library's version and level. But we need a new web service to do that. We also realize that the binary green check-mark and red ex don't do justice to the nuance here. We'll give some more thought on how to modify this.

Second, let me clarify that what we're trying to do is serve customers. We've found that the majority of customer think of Logos as one, unified thing. Many will download the free engine and not really understand that they're missing out on new features. Many who do a full upgrade don't understand that their upgrade includes a new library. These nuances are lost on many people, and our aim is to help people have a more precise understanding of what they have and don't have. It's okay if you intentionally choose just to update the software, or the software and the features. Our aim is to help those who make the wrong choice out of ignorance or confusion.

Thanks for your feedback. We'll keep it in mind as we improve this.

Posts 1044
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 9:50 AM

I get that the tone may be a bit off from a marketing point of view, but I'm struggling a bit to see the real problem here.  The software version number is critically important.  But that's pretty much it - the "about" doesn't even try to provide the information we'd need to track our purchases. It's basically performing the same function as the manufacturer's nameplate on a car; it's a shiny chrome symbol, so to speak, that you've purchased an expensive product from a "name brand" manufacturer.

Personally, I wish there were a good way to track purchases from within the application - perhaps by appending a "purchase date" field to each resource (in my perfect world, it would also have the purchase price too). But other than the version date, I view this as a digital marketing sticker slapped on the back of the product.

ADDENDUM:

I didn't see Phil's response before hitting "enter" on my post.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

...We've found that the majority of customer think of Logos as one, unified thing. Many will download the free engine and not really understand that they're missing out on new features. Many who do a full upgrade don't understand that their upgrade includes a new library. These nuances are lost on many people, and our aim is to help people have a more precise understanding of what they have and don't have. ...

This seems like a reasonable thing for FaithLife to be concerned about.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):

.... We'd like to show more information than "pre-Logos 7." Ideally, we'd show your latest library's version and level. ...

That would seem helpful. 

Posts 287
Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 10:13 AM

I have Verbum 7 Portfolio and this screen directs me to "Explore More Libraries" at the Verbum.com website but the only ones I don't have are the Spanish language ones.  No habla.  

Posts 2398
Jan Krohn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 10:13 AM

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Ideally, we'd show your latest library's version and level.

Ideally (imo), you'd show ALL owned library versions and levels. :-)

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Posts 10456
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 10:25 AM

EastTN, no offense, but you can't be among the living (joking). The SE on my new electric bicycle is absolutely critical. It means I have the best, and the hill is just too steep (the SE tried its best, but the rider might need to diet). Our electric wonder car is a complete waste, if we can't be reminded how smart we were (and wasted large amounts of mula).

I really think Christians (not referring to EastTN) like to play like they're not human, even though casual observation highlights women with their fashions, and men with their latest gadgets ... oh yes .... Logos7 Sapphire!!!

Logos would do well to reward the humans for buying so much stuff. Then they'll buy even more.


Posts 2063
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 10:30 AM

EastTN:
I get that the tone may be a bit off from a marketing point of view, but I'm struggling a bit to see the real problem here.  The software version number is critically important.  But that's pretty much it - the "about" doesn't even try to provide the information we'd need to track our purchases.

I agree. I don't really care if it shows what libraries I own (though it would be nice and appease). What it should show is enough diagnostic information to be helpful: The software version and what features are enabled/disabled and the information to determine why.

Posts 287
Hapax Legomena | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 10:38 AM

Denise:

. . .

Logos would do well to reward the humans for buying so much stuff. Then they'll buy even more.

The whole point, I imagine.

I want Logos/Verbum/Faithlife to survive and Bob to prosper so all the money I've spent won't go down the drain.  So, I guess I'll have to accept the marketing.

Posts 1844
LogosEmployee
Phil Gons (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 10:56 AM

Randy W. Sims:

What it should show is enough diagnostic information to be helpful: The software version and what features are enabled/disabled and the information to determine why.

We're working on some improvements for 7.4 that will show you specifically what functionality you're missing and what to do about it if you'd like to enable it. We also plan to have a setting that will allow you to disable it if you don't care to be reminded about missing functionality.

Posts 10456
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 11:32 AM

Hapax ... normally I'd agree. But in this case, Phil proposes to attach a label to the pastor's suit, saying 'We DO make better suits than you bought.'  It'll be a big motivator.


Posts 1044
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 11:39 AM

Denise:

...The SE on my new electric bicycle is absolutely critical. It means I have the best, and the hill is just too steep (the SE tried its best, but the rider might need to diet). Our electric wonder car is a complete waste, if we can't be reminded how smart we were (and wasted large amounts of mula).

Well, now that you put it that way ...

Big Smile

Posts 1044
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 11:42 AM

Randy W. Sims:

...What it should show is enough diagnostic information to be helpful: The software version and what features are enabled/disabled and the information to determine why.

That makes complete sense to me - it's information needed for support and troubleshooting.

Posts 5257
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 1:34 PM

Mike McKnelly:

I've been with logos since it came on a few floppy disks. I own over 1300 resources and purchased logos seven cross grade and am a logos now subscriber since its beginning. Yet it is implied in the above screenshot with the red X that I am a lower-class user because I don't have a logos seven library. I am a layperson and I choose to buy the books that I really need rather than ones that I will never look at. Please let me know your opinion on this issue.

Once again Faithlife treats its customer with no respect putting a big red cross against them because they haven't bought a Logos 7 library is appalling. 

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
Second, let me clarify that what we're trying to do is serve customers.

Er no, I don't think you are serving customers when that is the way you choose to communicate with them. Sorry customer but you get a big red cross on your account because you have spent money buying one of our latest libraries. Previously we told you, it's not required but now if you haven't your getting a cross against your name  

I really don't understand how the designers could ever think putting the dredded red ink mark on a users software against their account information is helpful.

Randy W. Sims:
I don't really care if it shows what libraries I own (though it would be nice and appease). What it should show is enough diagnostic information to be helpful: The software version and what features are enabled/disabled and the information to determine why.

Yes Randy helpful informaiton is welcome, what Faithlife designers have done has gone beyond helpful information to providing a judgement on the users purchase choices.

Phil Gons (Faithlife):
We're working on some improvements for 7.4 that will show you specifically what functionality you're missing and what to do about it if you'd like to enable it. We also plan to have a setting that will allow you to disable it if you don't care to be reminded about missing functionality.

The real truth is coming out in this comment, you just want to intrude further with your marketing.  We've given you a big fail mark against your account because you haven't spent enough money with us recently but if you'd like us to remove it, here's how you can do that by spending more money this way.  You are going beyond the helpful diagnostic information that Randy discusses.  This goes to the heart of a marketing team driven by worldly focussed marketing practices - lets tell the customers who haven' spent enough money with us they are bad - a big red cross on their software about page should do make that clear to them, and then once we got them feeling bad, lets provide a way for them to fix their failure by directing them how to spend more money with us.I wonder what Martin Luther would think.

Phil you used to be a customer like one of us, what has happened to you that you know think treating customers this way is an appropriate way to engage them and is somehow helpful to them.  Your customer base includes academics, pastors and theological students yet you seem to think treating them like children and red inking them is they way to communicate with them. Really disappointing stuff once again from the Faithlife Design and Marketing Teams.

Posts 10456
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 2:10 PM

I know, I know ... I should be quiet. But I can't stop laughing. I assume, if I update my Logos7, I'll get TWO red X's!  I feel like the Doublement girls. Double my red-hot flavor. Wow, this is great.


Posts 958
Deacon Steve | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 2:27 PM

I posted in a different thread before I saw this one ... thought it more appropriate here ....

I would also mention a more insignificant, but curious issue on the Info Panel header ... I use the Verbum-branded version of the software (v7), am a Verbum Now member, and I have the Verbum 7 Platinum Library.  Everything displays the Verbum branding except for the library.  It says Logos 7.  Seems like there may be a different level of precision in the display than there used to be.  I recall seeing Verbum Capstone in that header information prior to the v7 upgrade this fall.  Not sure what it said before this update.

Posts 2155
LogosEmployee

Steve:

I posted in a different thread before I saw this one ... thought it more appropriate here ....

I would also mention a more insignificant, but curious issue on the Info Panel header ... I use the Verbum-branded version of the software (v7), am a Verbum Now member, and I have the Verbum 7 Platinum Library.  Everything displays the Verbum branding except for the library.  It says Logos 7.  Seems like there may be a different level of precision in the display than there used to be.  I recall seeing Verbum Capstone in that header information prior to the v7 upgrade this fall.  Not sure what it said before this update.

Thanks for the report, Steve. I believe this supposed to say "Verbum 7 Library". We'll get this fixed up.

Posts 3389
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 20 2016 2:57 PM

Is it really that important to see how many libraries we own?

Must we find fault with FL for how they choose to market their product?

With it we bless our God and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the similitude of God. Out of the same mouth proceed blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not to be so. James 3 9:10 NKJV

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