How would you approach the study of "grieving" and / or "quenching" the Holy Spirit

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Feb 16 2017 9:10 AM

Follow-up to Faithlife Precept Upon Precept Philippians discussion => https://faithlife.com/precept-philippians-study/topics/4178?offset=6 (angle brackets disappear and cannot include pictures)

Technical question: how would you approach the study of "grieving" and / or "quenching" the H.S. in L7?

 

I did a proximity search as follows:

 

1 In the search box: grieving WITHIN 8 words quenching

 

1 above I did in methodist collection, and charismatic, etc. to see the different angles.

 

I wonder what is the right way to do the following search (as in need to use parenthesis?)

 

grieving WITHIN 8 words quenching NEAR "Holy Spirit"

Suggest searching an English collection without Bibles (Lang:English -Type:Bible) for:

(grief,grieve) WITHIN {Milestone <Ep4>}

to find resources with Bible Indexes (milestones) that have grief OR grieve in discussion of Ephesians chapter 4.

Likewise can search for quench in 1 Thessalonians chapter 5

quench WITHIN {Milestone <1Th5>}

Thought of using the biblical and systematic theology section of the passage guide, but guess two different PG had to be done:

 

one for Ephesians 4:30, another for 1 Thessalonians 5:19.

Concur two Passage Guides are needed for two passages.

Can the two milestones can be used to search for quoted by info?:

 

i.e.:[angle bracket] Ephesians 4:30 [a.b.] OR [a.b] 1 Thessalonians 5:19 [a.b] in the different collections?

Cited By can search for one passage at a time. Search can find references to either verse:

<Ep4.25-32> OR <1Th5.20>

Keep Smiling Smile

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 16 2017 11:14 AM

Excellent, thanks.

 Ruach HaKodesh is probably very happy because of this thread.

Blessings, and God's grace. LOL.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Feb 17 2017 8:42 AM

Follow-up to Faithlife Precept Upon Precept Philippians discussion (lesson five continued) => https://faithlife.com/precept-philippians-study/topics/4178?groupId=6399441&offset=12

From your cross-references, what/when is the “day of Christ”?

Bible Search for:

day BEFORE 2 WORDS of BEFORE 2 WORDS (Lord,Adonai,God,Jesus,Christ)

found more cross references to consider.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 18 2017 11:10 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
day BEFORE 2 WORDS of BEFORE 2 WORDS (Lord,Adonai,God,Jesus,Christ)

Expanded Bible search:

((coming,day) BEFORE 2 WORDS of BEFORE 2 WORDS (Lord,Adonai,God,Jesus,Christ,judgment)) OR ((Lord,"Lord's",Christ,"Christ's",Messiah) WITHIN 4 WORDS (comes,coming,returns,revelation))

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 18 2017 5:09 PM

While praying for God's calling in work for me to glorify Him, found a recruiter had posted a graphic of Successful and Unsuccessful People:

Noted successful attributes reflect living a life worthy of our Lord Jesus Christ, Adonai Yeshua HaMashiach that includes Joy Big Smile

Caveat: personally wish graphic would include male and female outlines of people on both sides.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 20 2017 8:35 AM

Poster on successful n unsuccessful...  LOL, I will analyze it and comment later, but seems too simplistic, with ungranted generalizations.

My posting is to consult about a workflow with respect to "living demonstrations of the attitudes of Christ" chart.

My premise is based on input from an L7 resource:

"Yet this approach provides the opportunity to apply the attitudinal concept to a variety of experiential domains in that a given attitude may have affective functions (e.g., protection of self-esteem), cognitive functions (e.g., categorization of experiences into that which is good and bad), and expressive functions (e.g., determining appropriate means of communication).

For example, a prejudicial attitude toward another group may function in a way to make one feel superior (affect), to simplify experiences into the “good us” and “bad them” categories (cognition), and to justify the use of racial epithets (expression)."

 Hill, P. C. (1999). Attitude. In D. G. Benner & P. C. Hill (Eds.), Baker encyclopedia of psychology & counseling (2nd ed., p. 107). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.

Then based on:  

https://faithlife.com/logos-30-day-challenge/reader?readingPlanId=2b45bbd6a5da424abac54db24a74e75e&sessionDate=2017-01-26 

The above instructs: 

"

Select the lemma, or the dictionary form of the word, and run a Bible Word Study on the term. When the Bible Study window opens, we can scroll down to the Clause Participants section and expand it if necessary. The Clause Participants section shows us how different biblical entities interact with the verb we are studying. "

So I wonder how to get the  verbs related to Jesus' actions, and if there is a way to know what entities Jesus interacted with, so we can see what categorisation of good or bad He had of such, and how it expressed God's reality and viewpoint about.

Example:

Off my mind, I noticed that Jesus in general interacted different with two groups of humans so to speak:

To regular sheep (potential wheat), Jesus criticized the sin in their lives, and encouraged them to repent and not miss the mark anymore.

But to another group, it seems that Jesus criticized the persons themselves (religious authorities in control for example), as something being wrong with them:

Judas Iscariot not presented as sinning sheep, but as g:eimi diabolos.

Religious authorities as children of the evil one, wanting to do their parent's works: lie, steal, cheat, kill...

Strange. It does jibe with the parable of the wheat and the tares, but the details of the actual implications is not very clear.

Hope this opens a venue for further research. Thanks ahead of time KS4J (or any other believer wanting to input), for any proposed workflow, tip, etc.

Blessings.

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 20 2017 8:37 AM

Tentative attempts to search:

Posts 1033
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2017 10:20 AM

A little better in clause search: Agent:Jesus Patient:any

452 results, but seems like some entities and the interaction with them are missing.

Just finished the built of NASB Concordance, so filtering for "Biblical entity" in "New Testament", a whole list of entities are available for study.

Concordance tool is really amazing.

Peace and grace.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Feb 21 2017 10:59 AM

Hamilton Ramos:
So I wonder how to get the  verbs related to Jesus' actions,

Bible search includes many verbal actions of Jesus (along with some others):

([field bible, content] <LogosMorphGr ~ V???????>) INTERSECTS <Person Jesus>

Bible Search can find verbs spoken by Jesus:

([field bible, content] <LogosMorphGr ~ V???????>) WITHIN {Speaker <Person Jesus>}

Keep Smiling Smile

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 7:31 AM

Hi KS4J, God bless:

I have gotten amazing results with the following search in Eng lang rsces collection:

(Enoch, Daniel, Joseph, John) WITHIN 7 words perfection

Have you got any ideas to make it better?

eg: (Enoch, Daniel, Joseph, John) WITHIN 7 words (perfection, maturity, completion, christlikeness)

Thanks ahead of time for any input.

I am not Wesleyan nor methodist, but interesting concept:

"Another great Wesleyan-holiness theme is that of Christian perfection. Rather than flawlessness, Christian perfection is transformation and maturity in faith and practice. John speaks of perfect love that drives out fear (4:18).

The theme of completeness, similar in meaning to Jesus’ use of the term complete or perfect in Matthew 5:48, is addressed throughout the book (1:4, 2:5, 4:12, 17)."

 Case, D. A., & Holdren, D. W. (2006). 1-2 Peter, 1-3 John, Jude: a commentary for Bible students (p. 201). Indianapolis, IN: Wesleyan Publishing House.

Peace and grace.

P.S. by the way, not grieving nor quenching the Spirit is part of that christian relative perfection. LOL.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Mar 4 2017 11:59 AM

Hamilton Ramos:

(Enoch, Daniel, Joseph, John) WITHIN 7 words perfection

Have you got any ideas to make it better?

(Christian, doctrine, system) NEAR perfection

([field heading,largetext,surface] complete,mature,perfect,perfection,sanctification) AFTER 77 WORDS ([field heading,largetext] Jesus,Christ,Christian,doctrine,system)

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 6 2017 5:57 AM

Thnak you KS4J, excellent input.

A dumb question (which I am not afraid to ask as I am not "absolutely perfect"), and thus press on to learn from gifted men of God...

In the textbook, we are told to look up for definitions:

fellowship, conformed, perfect, attitude, etc.

One way to do that is to right click on the word and do "Bible word study", then look in the different resources listed under topic.

Another way is to use the dictionaries collection, and search within the "heading text", and "large text".

Is there in your opinion KS4J a superior way to look up for definitions? is it  one of the ways above described?

My question raises, because I have noticed that certain resources yield better results according to the nature of the dictionary.

For example:

Attitude, character, and such related terms seem to be better explained in:

Benner, D. G., & Hill, P. C. (Eds.). (1999). In Baker encyclopedia of psychology & counseling (2nd ed.). Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books.

While theological concepts seem to be better treated in resources such as:

Mangum, D., Brown, D. R., Klippenstein, R., & Hurst, R. (Eds.). (2014). Lexham Theological Wordbook. Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

Is there an optimized way to do the definition study?

Ever since college (and much to my dismay), I noted that the best definitions in the end came from the synthesis of many thrusts found in different resources, where one harmoniously weaves together different angles to form a more complete and coherent whole.

The above takes a lot of work, and a lot of thought, much guidance from the H.S. is needed most of the time. 

I would think that such work would be undertaken by the experts, and we did not have to get into such nitty gritty, my conception was that we were more to look for application of synthezised knowledge, but that is not the way it is.

A lot of experts talk about: propositional truths, universal precepts, unwavering thrusts through time, but I never find a resource that lists such per area.

One rare example:

IV. PRECEPTS FOR WORKERS

Do good.—Gal. 6:10.

Obey God.—Acts 5:29.

Worship God.—Rev. 22:9.

Keep thyself pure.—1 Tim. 5:22.

Be strong in the Lord.—Eph. 6:10.

Take heed how ye hear.—Luke 8:18.

Avenge not yourselves.—Rom. 12:19.

Pray without ceasing.—1 Thess. 5:17.

Rejoice in the Lord alway.—Phil. 4:4.

Give attendance to reading.—1 Tim. 4:13.

In everything give thanks.—1 Thess. 5:18.

Fight the good fight of faith.—1 Tim. 6:12.

Hold fast that which is good.—1 Thess. 5:21.

Be not conformed to this world.—Rom. 12:2.

Bless them which persecute you.—Rom. 12:14.

If thine enemy hunger, feed him.—Rom. 12:20.

Do all in the name of the Lord Jesus.—Col. 3:17.

Preach the Gospel to every creature.—Mark 16:15.

Be thou an example to the believers.—1 Tim. 4:12.

Have fervent charity among yourselves.—1 Pet. 4:8.

Abstain from all appearance of evil.—1 Thess. 5:22.

Pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands.—1 Tim. 2:8.

Fear God, and keep his commandments.—Eccl. 12:13.

Study to shew thyself approved unto God.—2 Tim. 2:15.

Be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.—2 Tim. 2:1.

Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine.—1 Tim. 4:16.

Whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.—1 Cor. 10:31.

Do all things without murmurings and disputings.—Phil. 2:14.

Endure hardness, as a good soldier of Jesus Christ.—2 Tim. 2:3.

Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation.—Matt. 26:41.

Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.—Rom. 12:9.

Abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul.—1 Pet. 2:11.

Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.—Rom. 12:21.

Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers.—2 Cor. 6:14.

Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness.—Matt. 6:33.

Be kindly affectioned one to another, with brotherly love.—Rom. 12:10.

Pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.—Matt. 5:44.

Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.—Col. 3:2.

Watch ye, stand fast in the faith, quit you like men, be strong.—1 Cor. 16:13.

Obey them that have the rule over you, for they watch for your souls.—Heb. 13:17.

Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.—Matt. 5:16.

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.—1 Jno. 2:15.

If any man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness.… Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.—Gal. 6:1, 2.

As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.… The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.—Gal. 6:10, 18.

Kauffman, D., & Stauffer, J. L. (1930). Helps for Ministers and Other Christian Workers (pp. 155–157). Scottdale, PA: Mennonite Publishing House.

Now, a very different approach by Jesus to the topic of precepts seems to have been identified by other experts:

A. DIDACTIC UTTERANCES.—1. The moral teaching of Christ concerned itself with general principles rather than with precepts. The Sermon on the Mount, which contains the chief elements of His ethical teaching, is not a code of injunctions, but a declaration of the fundamental principles that underlie His Kingdom; and the particular instances of right conduct mentioned in that discourse are not commandments, but illustrations of these principles. When He teaches His disciples regarding righteousness and sin, He avoids laying down laws regarding special acts, but goes at once to the very heart of moral distinctions, revealing the general principles which rule all special cases. Thus He solved all questions of meat by a single sentence, which ‘made all meats clean’ (Mk 7:19 RV); and He answered all questions of casuistry regarding Sabbath observance by pointing out the beneficent principle which led to its institution. In a word, He reduced all right action, whether towards God or towards man, to a fulfilling, and all wrong action to an outraging, of the one all-embracing commandment of Love. And thus His teaching finds its application in every act in every age.

There is but one exception recorded in our Gospels,—that in reference to divorce (Mk 10:11, 12, cf. Mt 5:32, 19:9). In this case He gives a concise and direct precept; but a precept, obedience to which purifies the human race at its source.

Grierson, C. T. P. (1906). Prophet. In J. Hastings (Ed.), A Dictionary of Christ and the Gospels: Aaron–Zion (Vol. 2, p. 435). Edinburgh; New York: T&T Clark; Charles Scribner’s Sons.

[The bold highlight is mine for added emphasis].

Have you got a comment on any or all of the above KS4J? any input that may be of help? (or any constructive input from anyone to that effect)?

Peace and grace.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 6 2017 4:52 PM

Hamilton Ramos:

In the textbook, we are told to look up for definitions:

fellowship, conformed, perfect, attitude, etc.

One way to do that is to right click on the word and do "Bible word study", then look in the different resources listed under topic.

Another way is to use the dictionaries collection, and search within the "heading text", and "large text".

Is there in your opinion KS4J a superior way to look up for definitions? is it  one of the ways above described?

Thankful for propositional outline that can be combined with visual filter highlighting so can "see" Greek verbal intensity plus more in context::

For searching Heading Text and Large Text, can use lemma with headwords: e.g. copy from Lexham Theological Wordbook (LTW)

κοινωνία, fellowship, communion, sharing, participation

Another tool is Factbook, which can have Sermon Starter Guide link (with Thematic Outlines):

Reviewing context of Philippians 3:10 provided another search idea for Application (could search All resources for more results):

([field heading,largetext,surface] suffering) AFTER 88 WORDS ([field heading,largetext] κοινωνία, fellowship, communion, sharing, participation)

Hamilton Ramos:

Now, a very different approach by Jesus to the topic of precepts seems to have been identified by other experts:

A. DIDACTIC UTTERANCES.—1. The moral teaching of Christ concerned itself with general principles rather than with precepts. The Sermon on the Mount, which contains the chief elements of His ethical teaching, is not a code of injunctions, but a declaration of the fundamental principles that underlie His Kingdom; and the particular instances of right conduct mentioned in that discourse are not commandments, but illustrations of these principles. When He teaches His disciples regarding righteousness and sin, He avoids laying down laws regarding special acts, but goes at once to the very heart of moral distinctions, revealing the general principles which rule all special cases. Thus He solved all questions of meat by a single sentence, which ‘made all meats clean’ (Mk 7:19 RV); and He answered all questions of casuistry regarding Sabbath observance by pointing out the beneficent principle which led to its institution. In a word, He reduced all right action, whether towards God or towards man, to a fulfilling, and all wrong action to an outraging, of the one all-embracing commandment of Love. And thus His teaching finds its application in every act in every age.

There is but one exception recorded in our Gospels,—that in reference to divorce (Mk 10:11, 12, cf. Mt 5:32, 19:9). In this case He gives a concise and direct precept; but a precept, obedience to which purifies the human race at its source.

Grierson, C. T. P. (1906). Prophet. In J. Hastings (Ed.), A Dictionary of Christ and the Gospels: Aaron–Zion (Vol. 2, p. 435). Edinburgh; New York: T&T Clark; Charles Scribner’s Sons.

[The bold highlight is mine for added emphasis].

Searching Heading Text, Large Text for precept has a number of results:

Keep Smiling Smile

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 7 2017 6:42 AM

Thank you very much KS4J...

Excellent input, most probably will be of much help to many reading it.

You sparked off ideas, among others, to check for application of certain passages in wider specialized resources in L7:

https://blog.logos.com/2014/06/how-do-you-use-logos-dave-moser/

There are also Greek theological lexicons to check for theological implications of words.

Thanks again.

Blessings.

Posts 1033
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 8:59 PM

Hi KS4J God bless:

I read in a thread about your "My Discourse Study Questions", is that a docx to turn into resource by using pbb? If so, can you share it?

I did a bit of research on rejoice and found a very interesting resource:

"The Difficulties of Rejoicing With one Another

If it seems so simple, so clear, then why are so few experiencing it? Are Christians just ignorant or are there other matters hindering us? This section will take a brief look at six (6) different issues that stand out as difficulties to rejoicing in the way we have described it."

 Evans, P. T. (2010). The Forgotten Commandment: How to Build Loving Meaningful Relationships (p. 183). Tarentum, PA: Word Association Publishers.

I also found very good conceptual frameworks using media search with the term "character".

E.g.:

"I believe it boils down to four elements: (1) self-discipline, (2) core values, (3) a sense of identity, and (4) integrity".

 Maxwell, J. C. (2007). Talent is never enough: discover the choices that will take you beyond your talent. Nashville: Thomas Nelson.

 

In turn, a lot of good info related to identity, etc. is found in L7. 

E.g.:

"While careers, relationships, possessions, and hobbies are important aspects of our daily lives, they do not last forever…

So we have a choice. We can bounce from relationship to relationship, possession to possession, or career to career in a frustrating quest for our identity. Or we can embrace God's invitation to lose our lives and find our identity in Him (Mark 8:35-36). God invites us to a new and incredible identity. God invites us to find ourselves in Him.

And only in Him are we truly made whole."

 Geiger, E. (2008). Identity: who you are in christ. Nashville: B&H.

So, using the deep questioning in Inductive study, allows one to do better search in L7, once key elements are identified, an outline at the macro level starts to emerge.

From a logical macro level thrust conceptual framework, one can then drill down to study independent concepts, and start to see relations.

Application then can be found in the experience of many ministers in their books (many in vyrso).

I am pleasantly surprised by the ease of access to important information with the workflow.

Thanks ahead of time for any guidance.

Peace and grace.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 10 2017 11:35 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
I read in a thread about your "My Discourse Study Questions", is that a docx to turn into resource by using pbb? If so, can you share it?

Thread => Suggestion: Discourse Greek NT more customizable included reply on 12 Nov 2016 => http://community.logos.com/forums/p/37003/864818.aspx#864818 with newer "My Lexham Discourse Glossary"

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Completed "My Lexham Discourse Glossary" (My LDG), which has newer URL resource links to Bibles and Introduction resources:

2744.My Lexham Discourse Glossary.docx

Customized Book Cover for My LDG

Hamilton Ramos:
I did a bit of research on rejoice and found a very interesting resource:

Follow-up search idea is:

([field heading,largetext] rejoice,rejoicing) BEFORE 88 WORDS ([field heading,largetext,surface] character,difficult,difficulty,situation)

Keep Smiling Smile

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 17 2017 7:40 AM

Thank you KS4J for excellent input.

Since identity is a part of character, I posted in mobile ed PD101 faithlife group the following

Reading about the new Identity in Christ (through our regeneration and new birth), made me think in a different way.

Identity in Christ is a new identity for me, my old identity (old man in flesh), was buried with the washing of regeneration.

Never thought about this in this way, but opens new insights.

I would imagine that the new identity (in Christ), has particular characteristics (Christlikeness reflecting the nature and character of God).

Has anyone come up with a profile of applicable character traits we must manifest as we are indwelled with the new nature of the Holy Spirit?"

Trying to gather info with respect the question at the end of the above quote, I did a search:

traits WITHIN 8 words "new nature"

I also did a media search for "new nature traits"

Do you see more ways to try to get a list of traits to be manifested in us because of our new nature in our new identity in Christ?

Then if you could take a look at :

http://christiandiscourse.com/t/biblenote-experience-anyone/2536

Maybe you can post your ideas, views, etc.

Peace and grace.

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