Bug: Chinese CUV RVI Word alignment problems

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Posts 1163
LimJK | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Feb 19 2017 7:43 PM

Hi Logos,

Speaking as a lay person, who is hoping to use Chinese CUV for word study as advertised by Logos, I am beginning to have serious concerns about CUV RVI alignment problems ... (please bear with my frustration - sorry). While I can understand and accept that there are some words that are difficult to translate like to equivalent of "behold" (看哪) that I mentioned in a number of posts. Some appear as very straight forward bugs.

This morning I was test driving the CUV RVI again 

Right mouse click on the noun "约" (covenant) it gives me the verb "立"(make) in the context menu instead. Since both ESV and CUV RVI use the same source, I suppose the expert doing the alignment for CUV would have considered the alignment for LEB, ESV, NASB, KJV, NIV, NRSV, etc.

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 1163
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Feb 19 2017 8:24 PM

Another case, a little more involved.  I was looking at the 4 / 5 promises that the Lord made. The proposition outline shows the 5 promises clearly under ESV, under CUV RVI it is really confusing; the alignment of first 3 promises is a real challenge for me to understand the alignment rationale as a lay personSad.

A screen shot with inline Interlinear to show the alignment challenges:

  • It appears to me that "救贖", in this context should be 2 single word "救"(deliver) and "贖"(redeem), however it has been treated as a compound word "救贖", where I cannot mark or highlight them separately.
  • Please consider to align 脫離 consistent with the other Logos RVI(s)

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 1289
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 20 2017 7:51 AM

Thank you, LimJK, for bringing this up and for so patiently documenting specific cases. I don't have the time nor patience to document the RVI alignment problems because they seem so widespread that I basically do not feel that I can trust this data and use it for effective study without also referencing English Bible RVI's.

In general, I feel very underwhelmed and disappointed by widespread quality control issues of the Chinese Bronze package. There are so many obvious and clear inconsistencies among the Bronze resources (e.g. inconsistencies in book names and titles, abbreviations, etc, as you have been very patiently reporting and documenting) that it felt like the whole thing was rushed out the door without someone first doing any QC on the overall package.

I cannot, in all conscience, recommend Logos to my Chinese friends.

Peter

Posts 247
LogosEmployee
Philip Peng | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 20 2017 9:48 AM

PL:

Thank you, LimJK, for bringing this up and for so patiently documenting specific cases. I don't have the time nor patience to document the RVI alignment problems because they seem so widespread that I basically do not feel that I can trust this data and use it for effective study without also referencing English Bible RVI's.

In general, I feel very underwhelmed and disappointed by widespread quality control issues of the Chinese Bronze package. There are so many obvious and clear inconsistencies among the Bronze resources (e.g. inconsistencies in book names and titles, abbreviations, etc, as you have been very patiently reporting and documenting) that it felt like the whole thing was rushed out the door without someone first doing any QC on the overall package.

I cannot, in all conscience, recommend Logos to my Chinese friends.

Peter

Hi, Peter and LimJK,

I appreciate your effort to report to us some bugs and errors in our Chinese Reverse Interlinear Bible.  As Chinese Bible Translations are quite different than the English, the alignment of original texts with Chinese might sometimes difficult to align perfectly.  This is our first Chinese Reverse Interlinear Bible and it is hard for us to catch some bugs and alignment errors the first time. We are striving to make corrections and improvement gradually and we appreciate your help and patience to make Chinese package perfect.  I am sorry for the inconvenience and frustration we caused you.

Peter, I am sad and sorry to hear that you cannot recommend Logos Chinese Bronze to your Chinese friends at this time and I understand your frustration. We will improve and correct the known bugs as soon as we can.  I sincerely hope that after our constant efforts to make improvement, you will be able to recommend Chinese Logos software to your Chinese friends in the future.  

Once again, on behalf of Logos team, I apologize for the frustration and inconvenience we caused you.  Please pray for us as we are trying to improve the quality of our products.

Best regards,

Philip

Posts 1289
PL | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 20 2017 10:13 AM

Hi Philip,

Thanks for your response. I'm actually surprised that FL decides to start from scratch with this RVI work. There've been such Chinese-Hebrew/Greek interlinear resources available for at least 30 years.

For now, for original language reference, I use the follow FREE resource which seems to have more accurate Chinese-OL associations. Not sure if they're basing things on another preexisting resource - probably.

https://itunes.apple.com/cn/app/%E7%B2%BE%E8%AF%BB%E5%9C%A3%E7%BB%8F/id969776780?mt=8

Hope this helps,

Peter

Posts 247
LogosEmployee
Philip Peng | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 20 2017 10:27 AM

PL:

Hi Philip,

Thanks for your response. I'm actually surprised that FL decides to start from scratch with this RVI work. There've been such Chinese-Hebrew/Greek interlinear resources available for at least 30 years.

For now, for original language reference, I use the follow FREE resource which seems to have more accurate Chinese-OL associations. Not sure if they're basing things on another preexisting resource - probably.

https://itunes.apple.com/cn/app/%E7%B2%BE%E8%AF%BB%E5%9C%A3%E7%BB%8F/id969776780?mt=8

Hope this helps,

Peter

Hi, Peter,

You are welcome.  Thank you for the suggestion on the Chinese resources.  We did not start from scratch with this RVI work.  We signed the license agreement with a well-known Bible company to use their Chinese RVI data.  We will go over their data and make improvement as soon as we can.  Thank you for your patience.

Best regards,

Philip

Posts 1163
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 8 2017 8:16 AM

Another alignment bug here Eph 6:5  with 你們作僕人的   where: in common sense Chinese "δοῦλος" being a noun here should be aligned with "僕人" and not "作" which loosely mean "being". 

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 1163
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 8 2017 8:46 AM

Another alignment bug here 1 Tim 5:1 "為寡婦"

Where 

  • "為" is loosely "being"
  • "寡婦" widow

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 247
LogosEmployee
Philip Peng | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 8 2017 9:09 AM

LimJK:

Another alignment bug here 1 Tim 5:1 "為寡婦"

Where 

  • "為" is loosely "being"
  • "寡婦" widow

Hi, LimJK,

Thank you for taking time to find this.  I have adjusted both issues to reflect more accurate positions for the alignment. It will be updated at future updates.  Thank you.

Best regards,

Philip

Posts 1163
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 8 2017 6:47 PM

Philip Peng:

I have adjusted both issues to reflect more accurate positions for the alignment. It will be updated at future updates.

Philip,

ThanksSmile

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

Posts 247
LogosEmployee
Philip Peng | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 9 2017 10:36 AM

LimJK:

Philip Peng:

I have adjusted both issues to reflect more accurate positions for the alignment. It will be updated at future updates.

Philip,

ThanksSmile

You are welcome, JK.

Posts 1163
LimJK | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 30 2017 6:38 AM

Philip,

Another case, Ph 2:5 ... 以基督耶穌的心為心 ... word of interest is 

  • φρονέω or
  • LN 26:16 or
  • Bible Sense - "to think thus",

if you compare ESV then take a look at CUV RVI where you disassociate the Chinese translation with a ( • ) and the Greek text with another ( • ), As a lay person, I thought it is more appropriate to align φρονέω under 為心 as shown in the screen shot below. May be if the RVI expert who did the alignment can explain the rationale. There are too many alignment issues! which also affect search results! and Bible Word Study results!

JK

MacBookPro Retina 15" Mid 2014 2.5GHz RAM:16GB SSD:512GB macOS Mojave 10.14.1 | iPhone X iOS 12.1

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