Sermon Published without my permission

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This post has 94 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 3501
LogosEmployee
Scott Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 9:15 AM

Brad:
 The OP pointed out that he hadn't even finished the sermon that got published without his knowledge.  I'm sure he won't be the only one to whom this happens, given the current functionality.  SoundFaith could end up with numerous unfinished documents that will frustrate not only the authors, but those who come to SoundFaith for the content.  


Brad, the date field in the auto-publish setting is designed to prevent auto-publishing prior to a sermon completion.

On new documents this value defaults to the upcoming Sunday but you can set it to whatever you like. If that doesn't complement your workflow you can uncheck the auto-publish setting and publish manually when you're ready, using the Export > Post to SoundFaith option.

Thanks for the feedback!

Posts 1932
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 1:35 PM

I have no interest in being negative.  Please understand that.  I want to see the success of the Sermon app.  But I have not used it and this thread makes me not want to use it because I do not feel enough has been done to ensure the privacy of my notes and sermon write ups and ideas.  I would love to use the tool to see how it can help me.  But I am not interested in the kinds of glitches that may produce a published sermon whether done or not when I do not want that to happen.

A question:  If a sermon is published by mistake or by my permission, and in the future, I wanted to delete it.  Is it possible to permanently delete?

Posts 3501
LogosEmployee
Scott Alexander | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 2:00 PM

Mark:
A question:  If a sermon is published by mistake or by my permission, and in the future, I wanted to delete it.  Is it possible to permanently delete?

SoundFaith supports a "soft delete" -- the item is marked as deleted and can only be seen by the owner. Any previously public links to the resource will no longer work. 

Posts 3655
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 2:34 PM

Mark:
I have no interest in being negative.  Please understand that.  I want to see the success of the Sermon app.  But I have not used it and this thread makes me not want to use it because I do not feel enough has been done to ensure the privacy of my notes and sermon write ups and ideas.  I would love to use the tool to see how it can help me.  But I am not interested in the kinds of glitches that may produce a published sermon whether done or not when I do not want that to happen.

There are two features in LOGOS 7 that draw my interest - though I have not yet bit the bullet. One of these features is/was the sermon editor - but as I have read this thread, I am becoming less and less excited about its existence. I do have LOGOS 7 Basic and continue to enjoy the features of LOGOS 6, but still see little need to upgrade to LOGOS 7 or LOGOS NOW.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 3172
Forum MVP
PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 3:07 PM

Scott Alexander:
SoundFaith supports a "soft delete" -- the item is marked as deleted and can only be seen by the owner. Any previously public links to the resource will no longer work.

Soft deletes are good and bad. While it's good that you can still recover something you inadvertently deleted, you also end up with a growing number of soft-deleted cloud documents that FL doesn't let us permanently delete. It becomes unnecessary clutter.

Posts 58
Robert murray | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 3:11 PM

This does not fix the issue at hand. The main issue is that your internal discussion decided to profit extra off of your users by opting us in automatically.  An explaination email doesn't fix the issue.  It is ALWAYS wrong to automatically opt someone in.  The email should be and should have been to let people know this is an option.  It should not be, hey this is what we did to you because you want to pay for this service but you can undo it if you want.

The software is amazing so we as consumers put up with the exorbitant prices from Logos.  It is the price we pay to have the best.  However, that doesn't mean you should also profit off of what we do/create. And then, you expect us to pay $20/month to use the same service.

I am sorry if I sound a little harsh but this was very irritating. 

Robert

Missionary in Bolivia

--------

iMac - Macbook Air - iPad - L7 Baptist Portfolio - Logos Now

Posts 27447
Forum MVP
JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 4:07 PM

Robert murray:
It is ALWAYS wrong to automatically opt someone in.

I agree. Yes

OSX & iOS | Logs |  Install

Posts 457
Nord Zootman | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 5:39 PM

Can you imagine the outcry that would happen if Microsoft started publishing everything we wrote in Word? Especially if they charged others to use your writings? I have been using sermon builder and have had mixed thoughts about it, trying to decide whether to continue using it as it matures. This makes the decision easy. I am going back to Word and Powerpoint and publish my sermons when and where I decide to do so.

Posts 1932
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 6:56 PM

Scott Alexander:
SoundFaith supports a "soft delete"

It is good that something we inadvertently deleted can be undeleted.  BUT, we should have the right to permanently delete files, even personal books after sometime...OR after sometime, deleted files should automatically be purged.

And as others have pointed out, it is not right to automatically opt us in.  At this point the sermon editor is not something that interest me as this thread has given me no assurances.

Posts 413
Brad | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 29 2017 9:14 PM

Scott Alexander:


Brad, the date field in the auto-publish setting is designed to prevent auto-publishing prior to a sermon completion.

On new documents this value defaults to the upcoming Sunday but you can set it to whatever you like. If that doesn't complement your workflow you can uncheck the auto-publish setting and publish manually when you're ready, using the Export > Post to SoundFaith option.

Thanks for the feedback!

Thank you, Scott!  Yes, the Export button is likely the best choice for many of us.  My current workflow includes development of several sermons, in various stages of completion, at any given time.  If I accidentally have the "automatically publish" box checked, defaulting to the following Sunday, and did all of my prep through the Sermon Editor tool, I would end up with a variety of published "sermons" ranging from completed sermons, to outlines, to simply scripture texts with or without observations, illustrations etc.  That would be a real "published mess."  Perhaps more of us would jump in with both feet if FL simply eliminated the "automatically publish" check box and steered us to rely on the intentional "Export" button.  It might result in less content on SoundFaith, but the content would be of higher quality, and we might have more users willing to engage the benefits of the Sermon Editor Tool without the fears of unwanted side effects like blasting our rough ideas and rough drafts before they are "ready for prime time."

We appreciate you working through this with us, Scott.  Thank you again for the thoughtful discourse.

 

Posts 1932
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 30 2017 1:12 PM

Brad:

we might have more users willing to engage the benefits of the Sermon Editor Tool without the fears of unwanted side effects like blasting our rough ideas and rough drafts before they are "ready for prime time."

We appreciate you working through this with us, Scott.  Thank you again for the thoughtful discourse.

Brad:
 Perhaps more of us would jump in with both feet if FL simply eliminated the "automatically publish" check box and steered us to rely on the intentional "Export" button.

Yes

Posts 3655
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 30 2017 1:17 PM

Mark:

Brad:

we might have more users willing to engage the benefits of the Sermon Editor Tool without the fears of unwanted side effects like blasting our rough ideas and rough drafts before they are "ready for prime time."

We appreciate you working through this with us, Scott.  Thank you again for the thoughtful discourse.

Brad:
 Perhaps more of us would jump in with both feet if FL simply eliminated the "automatically publish" check box and steered us to rely on the intentional "Export" button.

Yes

YesYes

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 951
John Goodman | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 30 2017 2:34 PM

Why would anyone ever want automatic publishing... this is daft in my opinion. Publishing something is a deliberate act when you feel that something is worth publishing... you wouldn't even have this feature for a forum post... something as important as a sermon should never wind up published in draft... this is a terrible bug!

גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה

Posts 6228
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 30 2017 5:11 PM

Wait a minute, I just noticed I  have 7.5 version and the check box for automatically publishing to sound faith is not  showing on my sermon editor.  Any idea why? Is that feature still in beta? My Spanish sermon published to soundfaith which I don't mind, but it'd be nice to have the option which one I want to publish and which one not.

DAL

Posts 6228
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 30 2017 5:21 PM

DAL:

Wait a minute, I just noticed I  have 7.5 version and the check box for automatically publishing to sound faith is not  showing on my sermon editor.  Any idea why? Is that feature still in beta? My Spanish sermon published to soundfaith which I don't mind, but it'd be nice to have the option which one I want to publish and which one not.

DAL

OK, so it's showing on a new sermon when I open a blank sermon document, but the option is not available when I click on the edit sermon link on previously created sermons.  Now what? How do we fix this to unpublish and publish back and forth?

Thanks!

DAL

Posts 216
LogosEmployee

DAL:
but the option is not available ... on previously created sermons

This is by design. Sermons created before the introduction of the autopublish feature do not have any autopublish options. If you'd like to publish those to SoundFaith, you can use the "Export... > Post to SoundFaith" option to manually publish.

Posts 283
Lonnie Spencer | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 31 2017 9:53 AM

Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife):

DAL:
but the option is not available ... on previously created sermons

This is by design. Sermons created before the introduction of the autopublish feature do not have any autopublish options. If you'd like to publish those to SoundFaith, you can use the "Export... > Post to SoundFaith" option to manually publish.

If the option to publish a sermon to SoundFaith is already available in the Print/Export, then what is the purpose  of the auto publish button option? Why not simplify things and take the auto publish button out? 

Posts 216
LogosEmployee
Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 31 2017 10:09 AM

Lonnie Spencer:
what is the purpose  of the auto publish button option

The typical workflow for Sermon Editor is creating a new document at the start of the week; working on it throughout the week; delivering it on Sunday; and then starting a new Sermon the following week.

In this typical workflow, there's not a convenient time to publish the completed Sermon after delivering it on Sunday. Auto-publish is a convenient way to schedule publishing and not have to remember to open last week's sermon to publish on SoundFaith while working on this week's sermon.

Posts 1005
EastTN | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 31 2017 10:32 AM

Jacob Carpenter (Faithlife):

In this typical workflow, there's not a convenient time to publish the completed Sermon after delivering it on Sunday.

Of course there is.  It's at 8:15 on Monday morning, right after you've poured your first cup of coffee and fired up your computer, and right before you open a new document for the following Sunday.

Opening a document and selecting "publish" just isn't that hard.

I apologize if this comes across as a bit harsh - I'm not trying to be combative. I'm just not seeing any significant user benefit here - certainly nothing that would outweigh my concerns about Logos publishing my work by default unless I explicitly tell them not to.  That seems fundamentally backwards.  I want to be able to trust my software tools. If they may do things that I don't expect - especially things with potentially public consequences - it's unsettling. And the last thing FaithLife should want would be for users to feel safer doing their work with other tools in part simply to be more confident that they can control if and when that work is published.

Posts 1932
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 31 2017 3:06 PM

EastTN:
Opening a document and selecting "publish" just isn't that hard.

EastTN:
I want to be able to trust my software tools. If they may do things that I don't expect - especially things with potentially public consequences - it's unsettling.

I am thankful for this thread.  My concerns are not alleviated.  And until they are, I cannot and will not use the sermon editor. 

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