Time to Rethink and Restructure CP (Community Pricing)

One of the current problems with CP is that seemingly random price windows are assigned to each CP item which seriously inhibit what customers can bid. If one looks at the bidding screenshots in this thread about the Deuteronomy mEd course, the far left option is always the one customers prefer, and when the frame changes to arrange the popular price in the center, so does the price point that receives the most bids. The frame has changed three times, and each time the left-most (least expensive) price point attracts the most bids. WHY CAN'T WE ALL BID $1 ON THESE COURSES???

If Logos redesigned the bidding apparatus for CP (and I'm thinking primarily with regard to the statement that soon many more mEd courses will be offered on CP) to promote dirt cheap prices for these courses, I"m pretty sure than tens of thousands of Logos users will want to participate. I personally feel like the current CP system works against both FL and Logos customers in many respects. If customers realized that they could get 50 mEd courses for $50, then the line would wrap around the block. Even if it's 25 courses for $50 or 5 courses for $50, the numbers of customers who want to "get a piece of the mEd CP action" will be huge.

But the way CP is set up now inherently prevents the participation of vast numbers of customers, because customers are never given an option to make a killer deal come to fruition. A rethink of how bids are made needs to be formulated. Rather than focusing on the back-end (the price needed to cover expenses), there should be a low-ball attractive price-point that makes not participating unthinkable. The resulting system wouldn't wonder "if" the cost will be covered, but would assume that, focusing instead on getting the highest possible number of customers to participate. I even suggest that they consider bundling 3-5 courses together and letting them be offered as generic blanks that can be filled with whichever 3-5 courses a customer wants. LOTS of creative options are available that would go a long way to revitalize CP and encourage users to get involved.

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Simon’s Brother

I agree this needs to be reviewed.

Benjamin Burns

Just chiming in to say that I agree with David Paul here, and would definitely be making more impulse buys if courses were more of a bargain.

I've studied Christianity at the undergraduate level (besides my own studies), I thoroughly expect these courses to be taught from a perspective that I sometimes am going to strongly disagree with, and I am not rich by any means. Three big reasons why the mEd courses currently really are barely, if at all, on my radar. I do not think I will ever buy one at full price.

At the low-end of community pricing (e.g. $40-60) I may find myself picking up a course once or twice a year that I'm highly interested in.

But, if the courses were suddenly $5-15 apiece through community pricing, I would be chipping in on almost every single one.

PetahChristian

there should be a low-ball attractive price-point that makes not participating unthinkable

Yes. All the initial complaints about the Deuteronomy course was that FL picked a minimum of $180 which a) many people felt was too high, and b) didn't give them an initial opportunity to bid lower (to let users set the price). Many people passed on the course.

I think we'd all rather see a Mobile Ed CP be affordable for 1000 people, rather than 100 people, and making the price attractive from the start gets more people committed to (promoting) it.

The only question I have is why some courses never are offered on CP, but go right to Pre-Pub.

Richard Villanueva

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901172#Comment_901172

Are you thinking maybe more like a Kickstarter-type community bid?

For example, let's say a resource requires $10,000 to publish/create. If 10,000 people can give a $1 donation, 1 backer can give $10,000, or any other mix in between just so long as the production price is met?

Jan Krohn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901189#Comment_901189

For example, let's say a resource requires $10,000 to publish/create. If 10,000 people can give a $1 donation, 1 backer can give $10,000, or any other mix in between just so long as the production price is met?

Sounds reasonable.

And based on the amount given, people would get different kind of access levels?

Give between $1 and $5: Get a temporary license of 3 months
Give between $6 and $25: Get a temporary license of 12 months
Give between $25 and $50: Get a temporary license of 12 months + a coupon
Give more than $50: Get a permanent license

PetahChristian

I'm thinking primarily with regard to the statement that soon many more mEd courses will be offered on CP) to promote dirt cheap prices for these courses,

With a church Mobile Ed subscription for $80/month, a person can watch (the videos for) any/every course. (I only mention that as one reason for dirt cheap pricing.)

Many of us are still committed to the ownership model (to have access to all the readings for a course), but are limited by what we can afford to buy (especially as the longer courses average about $200-$300 on Pre-Pub).

We've seen 20-hour courses on CP eventually close around $50. I imagine that most of us would probably buy two courses a month for $80-$100 rather than subscribing to videos.

I would like to see an experiment where the initial price window starts low at $10, instead of having to continually be lowered down to $50 or less. Surely no one would pass up the opportunity to bid $10 for a Mobile Ed 20-hour course.

I think the only "downside" is that we'd be closing those CP offerings much faster than FL could produce them.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901189#Comment_901189

Are you thinking maybe more like a Kickstarter-type community bid?

That's not what I had in mind, but like I said, many options are possible. What I'm talking about is simply setting low bid amounts and keeping a bid window open long enough for folks to place a bid and meet the low price points. To be clear, I'm talking primarily about the mEd courses, because these are NEW resources and will attract bidders in numbers that public domain titles don't.

For instance, Logos could set a grid based on the retail price that is broken into $250 increments. Anything that is at or below $250 could have a lowest bid of $1, with higher points of $3, $5, $7, $9, $11, etc.

Anything between $250 and $500 could have amounts of $2, $4, $6, $8, $10, $12, etc.

Anything between $500 and $750 could have amounts of $3, $6, $9, $12, $15, etc.

Anything that is $750 and higher could have amounts of $4, $8, $12, $16, $20, etc.

Rather than have the program's design triggering on the highest possible price and work its way down, the assumption could be that the lowest possible price will be achieved and so it is offered up front. Then people would know that they were getting an incredible value at an affordable price and the incentive to participate would be almost too great to pass up. As a result, the whole psychological dynamic of CP customers changes from the current state of fear and uncertainty and playing it safe (which enforces unnecessarily high prices and eventually reduces interest in the whole CP program), to customers anticipating and expecting to get great content for great prices that are too good to pass over. Once the word gets out and people are made aware of the crazy good deals that are being offered, the percentage of customers who participate in CP could well triple, quadruple, or more. Frankly, I don't think there is any way to know exactly, but I am sure the interest and participation will increase dramatically.

I think most of these would close in the ranges I've posted above, but occasionally one may not get traction or attract bids. In such a case, FL could come in and explain where the CP is and what price point is necessary to get the course into production given the interest shown. People could make the adjustment or not.

I think this sort of system would encourage maximum participation because customers would be getting maximum possible value for their money. The key is designing a system that expects and encourages nearly everyone to take part and benefit.

To be clear, in contrast to the "rent/lease" models above, the model I'm suggesting takes Bob's words seriously. He said more than once that he doesn't care if he sells one item for $1000 or a thousand items for $1, just so long as he can cover the expense of production. I'm suggesting that people can literally get every single mEd CP for $1-4 pretty much as a matter of course. If the system for such a possibility was put in place, I'm almost certain thousands of customers will make a habit of spending as much money each month as it takes to get what FL can crank out. Pretty much everyone can afford $10-20 dollars a month, especially if they are getting 10 or 5 or 2 mEd courses for their investment. At these prices, only the stupid and the broke won't participate. FL has more than enough customers to make $1 mEd courses a REALITY.

Rick Ausdahl

I would very much like to see all Mobile Ed be offered initially via CP. I would be just fine with a minimum bid being required by Faithlife, but it would have to be a minimum that is low enough that almost anyone could afford to bid, while still high enough to truly move the product toward production in a timely manner for both Faithlife and for those bidding. Then I'd like to see Faithlife aggressively market the product for at least a few weeks so people have a chance to find out about it and for Faithlife to see if enough low bids come in to get things moving. If there just aren't enough low bids, Faithlife could let people know that the minimum bid will be raised by a certain date if they haven't received enough bids to get it moving, and then let Faithlife decide what that new minimum bid will be.

I'll suggest an initial minimum bid of $10 on any course that will later be priced at $200 or less, and at $20 for any course over $200. Granted, this is all off-the-cuff and I haven't thought it through. Just brain-storming during the few minutes I have available.

PetahChristian

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/901400#Comment_901400

I would very much like to see all Mobile Ed be offered initially via CP. I would be just fine with a minimum bid being required by Faithlife, but it would have to be a minimum that is low enough that almost anyone could afford to bid, while still high enough to truly move the product toward production in a timely manner for both Faithlife and for those bidding. Then I'd like to see Faithlife aggressively market the product for at least a few weeks so people have a chance to find out about it and for Faithlife to see if enough low bids come in to get things moving. If there just aren't enough low bids, Faithlife could let people know that the minimum bid will be raised by a certain date if they haven't received enough bids to get it moving, and then let Faithlife decide what that new minimum bid will be.

I'll suggest an initial minimum bid of $10 on any course that will later be priced at $200 or less, and at $20 for any course over $200. Granted, this is all off-the-cuff and I haven't thought it through. Just brain-storming during the few minutes I have available.

Yes, please, to everything. Mobile Ed courses have a lot to offer. Promoting courses at affordable CP prices can bring more people into the fold.

TCBlack

Many many moons ago I remember reading (from Bob) to the effect that if every Logos user contributed $1 towards CP everything would go into instant production. That makes perfect sense given that there are 221,000 users in the forum alone, Surely that points to more than a million users.

On the other hand, Logos has been doing CP long enough now to have metrics in hand that tell them WHO is going to bid HOW much within a continuum against a margin of error.

Typically when Logos does CP pushes/advertising those items seem to go over the (probably artificially small) line quickly.