I bought Collector's first...

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 4 2017 10:03 PM

I can't speak for mark but ICC is often less than helpful for my studies. It can be very technical. I find Word worth its weight in gold. But for some this evangelical commentary is to critical and not conservative enough.  Hermenia is very technical too but if you are willing to wade through it you very  often strike gold. AYBC has some gems in it but it has some duds too and many find it too liberal. ICC and AYBC are good for students and academics but they offer less practical advice for interpreting and applying the Bible. But we are all different I have usually found the NAC less than helpful. I would advise you to run passage guide on something like Leviticus 19 Psalm 23 Matthew 5:1-12 go through the commentaries see which ones that you have access to speak to you, nurish you, inform you it will help direct what you need to look for in a package.  

-dan

Posts 493
Richard Villanueva | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jul 4 2017 11:11 PM

aboutthelord:
can you expand on that? Are saying I shouldn't ever have these?

I can't speak for Mark either, but I know jumping into Logos years ago I was unsure of what differentiated one commentary from another.  Commentaries, dictionaries/encyclopedias, lexicons, etc., are all specific tools used for specific purposes.  Part of learning Logos properly is finding out what resources are used for different parts of bible study.  The thread linked below the following quote may help you in understanding (and organizing) your library.

Here is an excerpt from one of Mark's posts that describes the differences of the types of commentaries lists (Word, ICC, Hermenia being "technical" commentaries.)   

Mark Barnes:

If you're interested in how I understand the various categories, here's an explanation:

  • Technical Commentaries — Typically, technical commentaries will be detailed, fairly academic, and emphasise aspects of language and grammar (often using untransliterated Greek and Hebrew). They’ll frequently discuss several possible interpretations of a passage, weighing the different views. They’ll concentrate almost exclusively on what the text would have meant to the original readers, and won’t be concerned about contemporary application.
  • Intermediate Commentaries — Typically, intermediate commentaries will discuss the meaning of the Bible text, in a serious but not overly-academic way. If they discuss Greek and Hebrew words, those words will be transliterated, and there will be little grammatical analysis. They may acknowledge different interpretations of a passage, but probably only in footnotes. There may be some application for the contemporary church, but that won’t be a main emphasis.
  • Expository Commentaries — Typically, expository commentaries will discuss the meaning of the Bible text at a fairly simple level. They’ll be simple to read, with plenty of application and illustrations — a bit like a printed sermon. They’ll be hardly any footnotes, and hardly any Greek and Hebrew (which would be transliterated, if used at all).
  • Historical Commentaries — Historical Commentaries are commentaries written before (roughly) WW2. Exegetical methods have changed significantly since then, but these older commentaries give valuable insights into how the Bible has been interpreted in Church History. I decided upon four bands, that coincided roughly with the Enlightenment, Reformation, Middle Ages and Early Church. The way the Bible was interpreted changed quite significantly at each of those points, so the split is fairly useful (at least to me).
  • Background Commentaries — Background Commentaries don’t commentate on the overall meaning of a passage, but provide insights from the historical and cultural background wherever that’s appropriate.

It's an old thread, but it may serve helpful: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/88829.aspx  

 The link will take you to the posts that describe which commentaries fall into each category.

MBPro'12 / i5 / 8GB // 3.0 Scholars (Purple) / L6 & L7 Platinum, M&E Platinum, Anglican Bronze, P&C Silver / L8 Platinum, Academic Pro

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Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jul 5 2017 11:57 AM

One inexpensive item I did want to recommend too is Tom Constable's Expository Bible Study Notes you can read the current version online for free at https://www.studylight.org/commentaries/dcc.html but the 2003 edition Logos has will have most of the same information, I know he is continually reworking and adding to the notes but not sure when or even if Faithlife is planning on making an update/upgrade. I have the 2014 edition in Olivetree and usually notice only small changes...although that might just be the few areas I compared.. I remember one one volume commentary I own both places was always identical... but it happened to be that i just keep hitting the 40 percent of that commentary that had been retained from being updated from the Evangelical Bible Commentary to Bakers Illustrated Bible Commentary (leaving me for a long time to suspect the addition of photos was the major change).

-dan

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 6 2017 3:23 PM

aboutthelord:
can you expand on that? Are saying I shouldn't ever have these? I really like your plan but I am curious about that particular statement.

Sorry for the later reply. Two reasons why I would suggest these aren't right for you (based on the little info from your posts).

  • What you want, they're not good at. Although there are some good volumes in both AYBC and Hermeneia, many of the authors, particularly on OT books, are more interested in their own opinions than the biblical text. Some explicitly reject Christianity. Some of the OT ICC volumes are not just critical, but sceptical, which many, many more are very dated, so again there's only a few worthwhile volumes (e.g. Romans, Matthew, Pastorals). That can be useful for seminary students or academics who need to consider different opinions, but it's not much use for preachers or students of the Bible. The Word series tends in this direction, too, though not as much. However, the series format sucks, and they're beginning to get a little dated now.
  • What they are good at, you probably can't appreciate fully. You don't need a PhD to be able to understand AYBC, Hermeneia and ICC, but they're written for people with a seminary education. That's probably also true of NIGTC and Pillar. So why do I think NIGTC and Pillar are more appropriate, even for those without a seminary eduation? Because NIGTC and Pillar are written from a similar starting point to what you'll hear from the pulpit of Bible-preaching churches. If that's what you're used to, you'll be able to follow NIGTC and Pillar without too much difficulty, because you'll know at least something about how to read the Bible, relate the testaments, and apply theology. But AYBC/Hermeneia tend to approach the biblical text through the lens of history-of-religions, or source- or redaction-criticism, or Graeco-Roman parallels or similar. That's their strength (rather than straightforward exegesis), but if you've not had training in those disciplines you'll get frustrated by their weaknesses, without being able to appreciate their strengths.

aboutthelord:
And what do you think about Eerdmans 309?

I'm not sure it's right for you, it's much easier to find relevant material in reference books (commentaries, lexicons, dictionaries, encyclopaedias) than it is in monographs. Whilst you can dip into monographs, they're best read from cover to cover, or at least in large chunks. But I'm not sure that's what you're intending to do. That's not to say monographs aren't useful (they are), but I would absolutely prioritise reference material, especially when starting out. And, if you're spending $10,000 – or anything like that – you'll already have hundreds of academic monographs from other publishers. That's plenty to go on, in my opinion.

I'm writing all this from the perspective of owning all the sets you're talking about. That's not hypocritical! They're 'right' for me, partly because I've been building my Logos library for nearly 20 years, and I bought all the other sets first. And partly because I use Logosas both a pastor, a research student and lecturer, and these volumes are necessary in that environment. But I can honestly say I'm 10 to 50-times more likely to find something helpful in Pillar/NIGTC/Tyndale/BECNT/etc., than I am in AYBC and Hermeneia.

Posts 10126
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 6 2017 6:40 PM

Mark Barnes:

aboutthelord:
can you expand on that? Are saying I shouldn't ever have these? I really like your plan but I am curious about that particular statement.

But I can honestly say I'm 10 to 50-times more likely to find something helpful in Pillar/NIGTC/Tyndale/BECNT/etc., than I am in AYBC and Hermeneia.

I think that's the key ... what is it for? Devotional, in-bounds support, or explore the landscape? And I don't agree seminary-trained is a prerequisite for much of anything (no offence). From what I've seen, folks are far more broadly educated these days.


Posts 5248
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jul 6 2017 9:48 PM

But it is good for him to examine them himself we can all offer our opinions but we are all different. Tyndale is not all that helpful to me, indeed I just looked into Galatians 5 and found much useful material in AYBC and Hermeneia but virtually none in Tyndale but that is me. Were price not a concern and I had to choose between the three Hermeneia would likely be my choice, but Tyndale would definitely hit last place for me. For Mark B, it very well might be Tyndale would be his best choice. 

-dan

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Jacob Hantla | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 9:15 AM

Going big early will typically save you money and give you the most use of your library IF the extra resources are ones that you would use. If there are resources in collectors that you would use that aren't in Platinum and down and the difference in price is better than just purchasing those separately, then you made the right choice. 

I buy big packages though. 

Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org

Posts 2913
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 12:14 PM

https://community.logos.com/forums/t/102651.aspx

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 888
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 12:15 PM

Since you already have Collectors', have you tried reading a few pages of ICC etc to see if you can imagine yourself studying with those kinds of tools on a weekly basis?

Posts 2913
Tes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 12:15 PM

After reading in Ecclesiastes

        Ecc 12:12 Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body.
            The Holy Bible: New International Version. (1984). (Ec 12:12). Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan.

I found the above Bible passage to be true for me Smile

After buying many books and not using those books, it is  “Vanity of vanities”, a chasing after the wind

Edit:

Also in Amharic 

ብዙ መጻሕፍት ከገዛሁ በኋላና የገዛሁዋቸው መጻሕፍርትም ከመብዛታቸው የተነሣ ላነባቸው እንደማልችል ካጠንኩ በኋላ፣ በ መክ 12:12፣ "ብዙ መጻሕፍትን ማድረግ ፍጻሜ የለውም፥ እጅግም ምርምር ሰውነትን ያደክማል" የሚለውን ትክክል እንደሆነ አየሁኝ።

Also in Tigrinya

በብግዚኡ መጻሕፍቲ ብምግዛእ ብዝሒ ዘለዎም መጻሕፍቲ ድሕሪ ምኽዕባተይ፣ እሞ እቶም ዝገዝኦም መጻሕፍቲ ኸአ ኻብ ብዝሖም ዝተላዕለ ዘይጥቀመሎም ምዃነይ ምስ ተገንዘብኩ፣ በቃ !!! ኻብ ሕጂ ንድሕሪት እቲ ቐንዲ አገዳሲ ብዝሒ መጻሕፍቲ ዘይኰነስ እቶም ዝገዛእክዎም ብጉብእ ምጥቃመይኸምዝኾነ ኽርዳእ ኸኢለ፣ ብፍላይ እቶም ምስ ቤዝ ፓኬጅ ዝመጹ መጻሕፍቲ ገለ ኻብአቶም ዳርጋ ሐሰር መሰር እዮም። ኻብ ሕጂ ነዚ አብ መጽሓፍ መክብብ እተ ጠቕሰ አብ ግብሪ ኸውዕሎ ኸምዘሎኒ ተማሂረ።

Blessings in Christ.

Posts 44
aboutthelord | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 5:38 PM

Justin Gatlin:

Since you already have Collectors', have you tried reading a few pages of ICC etc to see if you can imagine yourself studying with those kinds of tools on a weekly basis?

i have been so overwhelmed with the amount of stuff in Collectors that I have not really been able to calm down and focus on one thing (maybe I really do have A.D.D.)

Blessed Be Your Name O God!

Posts 44
aboutthelord | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 5:56 PM

Dan Francis:

But it is good for him to examine them himself we can all offer our opinions but we are all different. Tyndale is not all that helpful to me, indeed I just looked into Galatians 5 and found much useful material in AYBC and Hermeneia but virtually none in Tyndale but that is me. Were price not a concern and I had to choose between the three Hermeneia would likely be my choice, but Tyndale would definitely hit last place for me. For Mark B, it very well might be Tyndale would be his best choice. 

-dan

I think the hard thing about this Dan, is I don't know what I need or want. I am new to commentary and "biblical aids" in general. I am one that tends to follow all of the New Testament and not parts of it. Growing up in denominations I had to deal with different denominations not agreeing on anything. That is one of my fears of commentary, 

Blessed Be Your Name O God!

Posts 44
aboutthelord | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 6:05 PM

So it is a little intimidating to pick out what I need and will not be counter productive. I don't want something that is strictly to a certain denomination but also not outside of the New Testament teachings. Like 1 Cor 14:34, if every verse in the New Testament were handle like that verse, then commentary could really change some teachings. I am not saying 1cor14:34 is for today but as a commentator, I wouldn't assume it is not because it sounds mean. And pre-trib theory as well, if the commentary writers believe pre-trib, then that is how it is explained In every passage that slightly hints it. I wish we could all read it and agree :)

Blessed Be Your Name O God!

Posts 888
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 6:38 PM

aboutthelord:

Justin Gatlin:

Since you already have Collectors', have you tried reading a few pages of ICC etc to see if you can imagine yourself studying with those kinds of tools on a weekly basis?

i have been so overwhelmed with the amount of stuff in Collectors that I have not really been able to calm down and focus on one thing (maybe I really do have A.D.D.)

That will make the decision easy for you.  If you can make neither hide nor hair of critical commentaries (or if their liberalism is offensive enough you would never stomach them), Collectors is a tremendous waste of money (coming from someone who bought it in 6). 

It is also not cheaper to start with Collectors. You can save money by climbing the ladder,  and prevent the possibility of finding out you are unable to afford your payments later. If you think you might not be able to, I think the bible is clear that you should not make vows (like a payment plan contract) you cannot keep. 

Posts 44
aboutthelord | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 7:54 PM

Dan Francis:

But it is good for him to examine them himself we can all offer our opinions but we are all different. Tyndale is not all that helpful to me, indeed I just looked into Galatians 5 and found much useful material in AYBC and Hermeneia but virtually none in Tyndale but that is me. Were price not a concern and I had to choose between the three Hermeneia would likely be my choice, but Tyndale would definitely hit last place for me. For Mark B, it very well might be Tyndale would be his best choice. 

-dan

I was looking into some of the suggestions on here and one of the good ideas to me was Baptist Portfolio. BUT... I was just looking at standard platinum and then dynamic pricing over to Baptist platinum. I would then have a good mix of commentary in my opinion. if you go do a side by side of platinum and Baptist platinum it looks good to me. I could use my 10% cash back on NICOT/NICNT. Any one think this is good/dumb?

Blessed Be Your Name O God!

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 8:00 PM

Setting aside the decision on what to buy, just letting you know that you can now get an extra discount on your base package as an LN member (through 7/19). Whatever package you end up choosing, the savings should pay for the membership (possibly several times over).

You'd have to speak with Customer Service who could help re-invoice your order.

Posts 44
aboutthelord | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 8:02 PM

I was under the impression that the discount didn't stack...

Blessed Be Your Name O God!

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 8:04 PM

aboutthelord:
I could use my 10% cash back on NICOT/NICNT.

If you're speaking about the $10 coupons per $100 spent, we don't know yet if we can use more than one coupon on a single order. Hopefully we can.

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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 8:06 PM

aboutthelord:

I was under the impression that the discount didn't stack...

It changed earlier tonight, and now does through 7/19. My library pricing has dropped anywhere from $20 to $500.

Unexpected, but definitely take advantage of it as it isn't the norm.

Posts 44
aboutthelord | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jul 7 2017 8:08 PM

I mean, for example collectors was $9,7xx.xx... supposedly discounted 10% from $10,7xx.xx

Would I have been able to get it at $8,800ish?

Blessed Be Your Name O God!

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