Extremely Frustrated

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This post has 54 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:00 AM

I am starting to work through NT176 The Gospel Message in the Early Church and I'm finding it very frustrating.

In the Suggested Reading and See Also sections of the first three segments I have numerous links to locked resources. I did some research and found that to unlock those resources would cost me $321.88 just to take full advantage of a free mobile course. Not sure yet what locked resources the other 19 segments will need.

I own Logos 7 Silver plus lots of individual Logos resources I've accumulated over the last 22 years. In total over 2700 resources and I still can't take full advantage of the free course. Very aggravating and frustrating.

I didn't feel so great this morning so I stayed home from church, listened to hymns and decided to do some studying and this is what happened. Thanks for letting me vent.

Posts 3308
Whyndell Grizzard | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:04 AM

Yep one reason I DO NOT buy mobile ed

Posts 2852
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:06 AM

They get you coming and going. They should include up front a list of all books needed like ... you know ... a real course at a school would do in a syllabus.

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:15 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:

They get you coming and going. They should include up front a list of all books needed like ... you know ... a real course at a school would do in a syllabus.

I agree whole heartedly.

They could also specify a minimum package level for their courses. That way I would only consider courses that would work with the resources in the Silver package.

Don't get me wrong. I love Logos. I'm just getting tired of the money pit it has become for me. 

Posts 1582
Kenute P. Curry | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:15 AM

I would be extremely frustrated too Marshall Harrison.

I totally agree 100% with Kevin A. Purcell

Posts 2089
Randy W. Sims | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:19 AM

Marshall Harrison:
They could also specify a minimum package level for their courses. That way I would only consider courses that would work with the resources in the Silver package.

They do or did specify Platinum as a minimum. Or the used to display it prominently but I don't see it now on a quick browse...

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:29 AM

Randy W. Sims:

Marshall Harrison:
They could also specify a minimum package level for their courses. That way I would only consider courses that would work with the resources in the Silver package.

They do or did specify Platinum as a minimum. Or the used to display it prominently but I don't see it now on a quick browse...

I'm curious as to what the most common package is? And courses should be targeted to that package (it may be Platinum). But Platinum is out of my reach as a layman. If I was a full time pastor with a budget for study and books then maybe but I will never get there. Gol afford.d plus some targeted o are the farthest I will ever be able to go.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:33 AM

Kevin A. Purcell:
They should include up front a list of all books needed like ... you know ... a real course at a school would do in a syllabus.

Did you ever look at a course in the course tool of Logos, or elsewhere?

  • The list of books that is mentioned in the course is included up front: check out https://ref.ly/logos4/Courses?plan=a056d7b885264a4db699e9598f5c1fd0 



  • Even if you don't like the courses tool, or find its sorting of resources wrong, or wold like to add your own checkmarks on resources you may have in paper or in some other substandard bible software: Every course has its Faithlife group which shares an Excel spreadsheet with all resources mentioned: https://faithlife.com/nt176/documents/11970 (obviously, you need to follow the group to have access)

  • Lastly: The resources are just suggested for further reading. They are not regarded as "needed" or required reading. Their content will not be tested in quizzes and the course speakers will not interact with those resources. Thus, they are not "needed" in the same way as required reading in a course where you get academic credit for. In some cases, several resources may be listed as recommended reading which will bring across roughly the same information, thus accommodating users that may own one resource, but not the other.  


    Moreover, NT176 is a multi-speaker course, thus very unlike most other mobile Ed courses. In most courses I have seen, the free LBD and FSB plus one or two other resources (such as a core resource authored by the speaker, or two very relevant bible commentaries or topical monographs) make for the bulk of recommended reading in a course. Those who are mentioned more than say ten or a dozen times couId be regarded as in a certain sense "needed". It is very rare to see such a long list of resources, and it is simply not fair to assume one could not benefit from a course without owning all resources that are referenced only once or twice.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 3992
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PetahChristian | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:35 AM

Sorry about the sticker shock. Unlocking resources are a hidden cost of Mobile Ed courses, even if you owned a larger library. (FL used to recommend Platinum on their Mobile Ed product pages, but you'd still be missing at least 21 resources for NT176 that aren't included in Platinum.)

If you look at the plan details for the course, you'll see that many of those linked resources are only referred to once. You'd probably end up only reading a short passage from the entire resource. Unless the resource is something you're interested in for other reasons, it's probably not worth buying every resource.

What you could do is use a Factbook or Topic search to see what other resources discuss the topics covered in the course. It's a bit more work, but you could still learn from other content that you do own. (Some of the newer courses actually have you do this in the Activities.)

Regardless of the cost, I'm very thankful for the courses that FL makes available to us. For me, it's opened up opportunities to learn from scholars at many different seminaries which I wouldn't be able to afford to attend.

Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:41 AM

I figure they specify Platinum to cover their bunions.

I am happy to use my #2 Christian electronic book provider for some readings.  There are hits into material I have owned for years.  This is only a partial solution.

I am a layman as well, Marshall.  I buy a few courses, knowing I will be short ''hits.''  I find that if courses are in an area I read in a lot, I have a greater % of the hits.

Baker Enc. of the Bible is one expense the courses hit a lot, but I do not own. Oh, well.

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NB.Mick | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:50 AM

Marshall Harrison:
I own Logos 7 Silver plus lots of individual Logos resources I've accumulated over the last 22 years. In total over 2700 resources and I still can't take full advantage of the free course.

The courses are not intended to require all of the resources. If you own all those who are mentioned more than say ten or a dozen times, you are good to go. In NT176 this would only be the free LBD from all of the 67 resources linked (14 times mentioned). 

Personally, in the spirit of Christmas, I rejoice in the fact that Logos gives such courses away for free for Christmas an Easter that normally would come too costly for me to buy. This makes me rather thankful than frustrated.

Running Logos 9 latest (beta) version on Win 10

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:51 AM

NB.Mick:

Kevin A. Purcell:
They should include up front a list of all books needed like ... you know ... a real course at a school would do in a syllabus.

Did you ever look at a course in the course tool of Logos, or elsewhere?

  • The list of books that is mentioned in the course is included up front: check out https://ref.ly/logos4/Courses?plan=a056d7b885264a4db699e9598f5c1fd0 



  • Even if you don't like the courses tool, or find its sorting of resources wrong, or wold like to add your own checkmarks on resources you may have in paper or in some other substandard bible software: Every course has its Faithlife group which shares an Excel spreadsheet with all resources mentioned: https://faithlife.com/nt176/documents/11970 (obviously, you need to follow the group to have access)

  • Lastly: The resources are just suggested for further reading. They are not regarded as "needed" or required reading. Their content will not be tested in quizzes and the course speakers will not interact with those resources. Thus, they are not "needed" in the same way as required reading in a course where you get academic credit for. In some cases, several resources may be listed as recommended reading which will bring across roughly the same information, thus accommodating users that may own one resource, but not the other.  


    Moreover, NT176 is a multi-speaker course, thus very unlike most other mobile Ed courses. In most courses I have seen, the free LBD and FSB plus one or two other resources (such as a core resource authored by the speaker, or two very relevant bible commentaries or topical monographs) make for the bulk of recommended reading in a course. Those who are mentioned more than say ten or a dozen times couId be regarded as in a certain sense "needed". It is very rare to see such a long list of resources, and it is simply not fair to assume one could not benefit from a course without owning all resources that are referenced only once or twice.

Thanks Mick. That helps.

 I simply opened the course link in the email I received for the 7 Day Challenge. Using that approach you don't see the resource list (or at least I don't). If I use the Tools/Courses path I get the list like you showed.

That will help a lot with the frustration but not the cost. If the resource is only referenced once then I guess I can jsut skip unlocking it and only concentrate of the resources with higher link counts.

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 7:57 AM

Thanks Petah and Scooter.

Early church history and thinking fascinates me and I'm slowly adding resources for that era. Using the Tools/Courses approach that Mick outlined I can now target my unlocks to fit in with my area of interest.

I had a 6th grade teacher back in the '60s that turned me on to archeology and that interest has stayed with me all these years. It now manifests itself in my focus on Paul's church planting work and the early church history. 

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 8:04 AM

NB.Mick:

Marshall Harrison:
I own Logos 7 Silver plus lots of individual Logos resources I've accumulated over the last 22 years. In total over 2700 resources and I still can't take full advantage of the free course.

The courses are not intended to require all of the resources. If you own all those who are mentioned more than say ten or a dozen times, you are good to go. In NT176 this would only be the free LBD from all of the 67 resources linked (14 times mentioned). 

Personally, in the spirit of Christmas, I rejoice in the fact that Logos gives such courses away for free for Christmas an Easter that normally would come too costly for me to buy. This makes me rather thankful than frustrated.

I too am thankful and I have taken advantage of the Christmas deals over the last 20+ years. That is why my library is so eclectic.

I'm about 80% thankful and 20% frustrated. Being unemployed does't leave much money to spend on Logos though I have lots of time to use it. But God has really blessed us over the course of my unemployment. Know anyone that wants to hire a 61 year old software developer? 

An old man playing in a young man's game. 

Posts 13419
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 8:15 AM

scooter:
I figure they specify Platinum to cover their bunions.

I was peripherally involved in Mobile Ed in the early days. The dilemma in choosing a base package is that if you choose it too low, professors will be very limited in material they can recommend. If you choose it too high, too few people will be able to own it.

Gold is probably the most common package for pastors, I would think. I'm not sure about laymen.

scooter:
Baker Enc. of the Bible is one expense the courses hit a lot, but I do not own. Oh, well.

That's in Starter and above, and it really is an excellent resource. It might be worth checking your upgrade price to Starter, especially given the current sale. You should find that it will be cheaper than the Encyclopaedia by itself.

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 8:17 AM

I still remain mystified at video course people (no offense).  In college, I nearly died with lectures. I skipped all my math lectures in college and high math is my main professional tool of choice.

I get a book, start reading. Instantly the author is discussing a book I don't have. I don't get excited. One right now just can't let go of criticizing Jerome-Murphy, but ok.

I know many who really like videos, so obviously it's personal preference. But expecting side-reads. Hmmm.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 8:20 AM

Mark Barnes:

scooter:
I figure they specify Platinum to cover their bunions.

I was peripherally involved in Mobile Ed in the early days. The dilemma in choosing a base package is that if you choose it too low, professors will be very limited in material they can recommend. If you choose it too high, too few people will be able to own it.

Gold is probably the most common package for pastors, I would think. I'm not sure about laymen.

scooter:
Baker Enc. of the Bible is one expense the courses hit a lot, but I do not own. Oh, well.

That's in Starter and above, and it really is an excellent resource. It might be worth checking your upgrade price to Starter, especially given the current sale. You should find that it will be cheaper than the Encyclopaedia by itself.

Hmm. Perhaps Logos would benefit from offering collections based on courses.

But your reasoning makes sense. The more useful and in depth a course goes the higher the cost and the more resources required.

Sorry for venting. It just all hit me wrong this morning. But this forum proved its worth once again. I am out of my funk and I learned a few things.

Posts 13419
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 8:21 AM

Marshall Harrison:
Being unemployed does't leave much money to spend on Logos though I have lots of time to use it.

The age old dilemma. Study requires time, money and energy. The problem is that few of us have all three Smile. Teenagers and young adults have time and energy, but little money. Parents rarely have time, money or energy, unless their job involves study. The unemployed have time and energy, but no money. And retirees have time and sometimes money, but often little energy, unless they've managed to retire early. That's one of the reasons I'm looking forward to heaven so much — time, riches and energy in abundance! (And, ironically, no need for Logos Bible Software!!)

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 8:26 AM

Mark Barnes:
Gold is probably the most common package for pastors, I would think. I'm not sure about laymen.

I have Gold, Mark, but an old Gold. L5.  I spend money on areas of interest.  A package is too shotgun-esque, - hence no L7 Gold.

Posts 205
Marshall Harrison | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 17 2017 8:34 AM

scooter:

Mark Barnes:
Gold is probably the most common package for pastors, I would think. I'm not sure about laymen.

I have Gold, Mark, but an old Gold. L5.  I spend money on areas of interest.  A package is too shotgun-esque, - hence no L7 Gold.

My thoughts too.

I have Silver Standard L7 plus LogosNow. From here on out I'll be taking advantage of the LogosNow free BOM and targeting specific books and collections geared to my interests.

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