Introducing Faithlife Connect

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This post has 279 Replies | 15 Followers

Posts 1783
Tom | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:42 AM

Sean:
I like Logos. I like many of its tools. I'm not at all interested in FaithLife's productions, TVs, or courses. And I don't have endless funds to absorb every increase.

Yes

www.hombrereformado.org  Solo a Dios la Gloria   Apoyo

Posts 1098
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:45 AM

JRS:
Here's a challenge to all of those who are so terribly upset with Faithlife and their pricing scheme:  

Here's a challenge to you: Would you be equally happy if they increased the price 300%? 500%? Where's your cutoff? Why aren't you more generous to such a wonderful corporation?

JRS:
And yet, we whine about a few extra dollars to make it all happen.  We even impugn the motives of the Christian brothers and sisters at FaithLife.  Many seem to think that unless they have taken a monkish vow of poverty and work long hours for a crust of bread and a sip of water, they are somehow under the power of avarice.

I live in the 10/40 window. I have a Ph.D. and pastor a large church. I make roughly the equivalent of U.S. minimum wage. I cannot justifiably afford this unreasonable increase to the price of Logos Now. Today FaithLife took from me something that was valuable for my ministry as well as my personal life. I am quite reasonably unhappy about that.

Customers who have been with Logos/FaithLife for years, even decades, have right to complain about their bad decisions.Take your corporate white-knighting somewhere else.

Posts 1887
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:46 AM

JRS:

Here's a challenge to all of those who are so terribly upset with Faithlife and their pricing scheme:  Go and assemble, say, a single Passage Guide of comparable Logos-quality using only the tools and means of a mere thirty years ago (I realize that many are too young to relate to this but the challenge is still applicable to you).  In other words, take pencil, paper, index cards, and typewriter to a theological library and manually research, document, and then organize into a professional-looking presentation all of the information that Logos would assemble for you.  And don't forget the time required for those interlibrary loans.   Any idea as to how long this chore would take you (assuming you don't get discouraged and quit)? Weeks, perhaps months.  And yet, with a few simple keystrokes and a couple of seconds of computer cycles, you have biblical research of a quality and quantity such as the world has never seen before.  Incredible, simply incredible.  But don't stop there ... consider also the datasets, the ability to search an entire library with a simple push of a button, the hyperlinking of every book in the library to every other book, the tools, etc. that you have in even the most basic Logos configuration.

Don't you recognize the enormous explosion in biblical studies that is happening right before your very eyes and that we are blessed to be a part of?  History rightly judges Gutenberg and his moveable type to have been a giant in his day and a necessary cog for the Reformation which changed the world ... imagine how it will judge the advent of the computer and Logos!

And yet, we whine about a few extra dollars to make it all happen.  We even impugn the motives of the Christian brothers and sisters at FaithLife.  Many seem to think that unless they have taken a monkish vow of poverty and work long hours for a crust of bread and a sip of water, they are somehow under the power of avarice.

But I say, Bring it on!  I am happy to invest in this amazing gift to the Church.  Even if I don't use all of the bells and whistles, I am pleased to know that I can help the development of these tools for others - not only for today but into the future as well.

a) I haven't impugned FL's motives. Nor has everyone who objects to the changes.

b) You're misrepresenting the argument of many (most?) of the people who object to the change.

Of course we understand the value. We're saying that we are willing to pay $99/year for all of those productivity features and datasets. We're not willing to pay $240/year for all of those features even though we also get a bunch of other benefits. We don't use the analogous benefits now, and we wouldn't use them in Connect "Essentials."

c) Finally, while at present I can afford the extra amount, there are many here who are pastors or in ministry. To them, those "few extra dollars" you refer to are very significant.

All in all, a fairly condescending post.

Donnie

Posts 2824
Michael Childs | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:47 AM

t

Robert Neely:

Sean:
This is an utter betrayal.

No, this is the natural progression of a subscription-based service.  Remember how cable tv started out?

  Of course it is the natural progression of any subscription-based service.  Rent never goes down, only up.  Good analogy.  I remember that I started out paying $20 a month  for cable TV, and now pay $125 per month, with no premium movie channels.  (On the other hand, I do have a multiple room DVR, and there is certainly a time factor involved.)

I was not even interested in Logos Now, and I am surely not interested in this.  The last thing I want is a monthly bill for my library books.  I would be more inclined to use that monthly fee for a payment to own books that I select, rather than to rent them, which what this amounts to doing.  And you do not even get to choose what books you renting.  Absurd!

Maybe this will work out for Logos.  They better hope that not many of the customers are like me.   I do not accuse Logos of betrayal.  It is a business decision, and I wish them well.  I will continue to buy my books from Logos (mostly).  I certainly wish them well.  They are a great company, and they are great people.  But as for any subscription service, thanks, but no thanks.  May be a great fit for someone else.

"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley

Posts 687
Kevin A Lewis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 7:59 AM

Either this is an awful deal

or

It has been badly communicated

or

The customer community are dense and have not understood the obvious!

Are there any other options.??

Let me know

Shalom

Posts 3160
Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:24 AM

I'm confused on the length of the access to Connect.  Do all LN subscribers get access to essentials until 2/22/19?  I've seen some claim they got starter and others essential.  I got essential which I'm actually warming up to (grabbed the class on Exodus to check out for free for 180 days).  I was thinking my LN expired before Feb 2019 but it seems I'll get connect until 2019... am I just lucky or is FL being generous?

Maybe this all hasn't been worked out on the back-end but it would be much more welcoming if it isn't an accident.  I don't want to shoot myself in the foot but I don't want to be dishonest either.  Anyone else seeing this?

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:25 AM

FYI, this was just posted in the Catholic forum:

Thomas Gette:

Verbum Now customers may have heard that Logos Now and Logos Cloud customers will be transitioned into our new subscription product, Faithlife Connect, and that we’ll be discontinuing those programs over the next year.

We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 1393
James Taylor | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:26 AM

fgh:
We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect

So I guess we should all just switch to Verbum Now

Logos 8  | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 10 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone X | iMac 27" i7, 16GB, SSD | OS 10.13

Posts 1887
Donnie Hale | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:30 AM

fgh:
We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.

I want that, but for Logos Now. :)

-Donnie

Posts 781
scooter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:30 AM

Kevin A Lewis:

Either this is an awful deal

or

It has been badly communicated

or

The customer community are dense and have not understood the obvious!

Are there any other options.??

Let me know

Shalom

'Tis an awful deal, badly communicated......Re: dense   Ur kidding, of course.  We ain't dense......But, we are connected to them by what we own +, as the umbilical cord grows in diameter, by what we rent.

The 1st time I was on a sea-going vessel as a kid, I felt the thrum of the engine increase as the vessel started out.  I felt uneasy for what the mighty sea and the waves held in store.  I feel the same unease here; white-knuckling a deck chair helps not at all, as it seems 2b moving in jittery little twitches interspersed with bigger lurches.

Posts 19
Adam Thomas | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:41 AM

This is what I've got - Logos Now accessible until Nov 2018, but Connect Starter set to renew at $89.99 in August 2018.

Which doesn't make much sense to me?!?

Posts 2829
Don Awalt | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:43 AM

Sean:
I like Logos. I like many of its tools. I'm not at all interested in FaithLife's productions, TVs, or courses. And I don't have endless funds to absorb every increase.

I have always felt that is the problem behind the push on money - just the responses here must be what, at least 90% negative? Where's the customer base whose input was the "feedback" that helped FL conclude this was a venture good for its customers?

Bob has said the increase in cost and subscription is due to "support", but you can't convince me there are enough paying customers to make Faithlife TV, cloud, Faithlife social groups, Proclaim, all the different mobile apps, Bible Study Magazine, Soundfaith, Kirkdale Press, other websites like Biblia, and probably more I am not thinking of, PROFITABLE - what pays for all that? What funds the new ventures that pop up, while the forums have a large quantity of quality and performance issues where it's victory to just get them "on the list"? I think what funds all this is the cash cow Logos. A 200% increase in subscription price is warranted, especially when it can "pay" for some of these otherwise underfunded ventures.

Posts 381
Danny Parker | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 8:54 AM

I am a Faithlife user since before Libronix - CDWORD. I have $10,000s of dollars invested and have been pleased with the product and pricing previously. Essentially, all I desire is to keep up with the product enhancements and continue to grow (and preserve) my permanent library. 

I don't need nor desire the cloud-based services or bells and whistles of services that I don't use or could get elsewhere. With a bit of concern I previously switched to LOGOS NOW - it seemed to be a good investment to maintain product capability. My level of concern for the future has now reached new heights. I will withdraw from the new service and reengage in a purchase scenario. I am too heavily invested in books to withdraw from Faithlife, but if I were a new user I might give other companies serious consideration. I can't believe that I am even making this statement.

As a previous business person here is my perspective. It seems Faithlife is deviating from its  previous user base's needs and foundational products. Are you increasing your expense streams by offering capabilities that no one wants and are forced to seek new revenue streams to fund these efforts? I know it is easy to speculate from a distance, but as a user/customer I too am forced to make financial decisions about cost/benefit. Even a deeply embedded and loyal customer base can begin to be eroded away. 

Posts 917
David Carter | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:02 AM

James Taylor:

So I guess we should all just switch to Verbum Now

Maybe we should all go the whole hog and cross the Tiber Big SmileBig SmileBig Smile

Posts 26
Ian Shepard | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:06 AM

This is my point exactly.  

"Thanks for being a loyal customer for 10+ years!  Now pay us twice as much or you lose a bunch of the resources you use on a daily basis, and, by the way, you're losing a bunch of benefits!"

Posts 8893
fgh | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:07 AM

Thomas Gette:

We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.

Follow up:

Fos Zoe:
Is it possible to convert an existing Logos Now subscription to a Verbum Now subscription?

Thomas Gette:

That's a good question, and the answer is Yes.

You can contact customer service, and they will help you switch to Verbum Now from Logos Now.

Phone: 800-875-6467
Email: cs@verbum.com

"The Christian way of life isn't so much an assignment to be performed, as a gift to be received."  Wilfrid Stinissen

Mac Pro OS 10.9.

Posts 1098
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:11 AM

fgh:

Thomas Gette:

We currently have no plans to discontinue Verbum Now and will not be transitioning Verbum Now customers into Faithlife Connect.

Follow up:

Fos Zoe:
Is it possible to convert an existing Logos Now subscription to a Verbum Now subscription?

Thomas Gette:

That's a good question, and the answer is Yes.

You can contact customer service, and they will help you switch to Verbum Now from Logos Now.

Phone: 800-875-6467
Email: cs@verbum.com

I'd seriously recommend not getting too optimistic about this as a solution.

Posts 26
Ian Shepard | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:24 AM

I've been a Logos user for nearly 10 years and despite having spent quite a bit of money over the years, I'm talking now to someone over at Accordance to see if they have anything they can offer.  Given that there may be a bunch of people jumping ship, it may be a good idea for them to create a lifeboat package for people exiting the Logos platform.

Posts 132
LogosEmployee
Chris duMond (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:32 AM

Mattillo:
Do all LN subscribers get access to essentials until 2/22/19?

No, different customers are receiving benefits based on multiple variables specific to that customer. 

Mattillo:
I was thinking my LN expired before Feb 2019 but it seems I'll get connect until 2019... am I just lucky or is FL being generous?

Your Logos Now subscription will expire on 11/13/18, but you also have Connect Essentials, which includes all the Logos Now benefits (plus more) until 2/22/2019. You are set to NOT auto-renew, so you'll need to make a decision on what you'd like to do when that comes time. But until then, I hope you enjoy all the benefits associated with Faithlife Connect Essentials! 

Mattillo:
Maybe this all hasn't been worked out on the back-end but it would be much more welcoming if it isn't an accident.

This is by design, and not an accident. Some customers may be seeing the same thing you are, some are not. 

Posts 33
Josh Parsley | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Feb 22 2018 9:33 AM

I was thinking some more about this today.

I think what they are doing could be a great deal for some people, but probably not for everyone who commented on this thread.

Why not offer all the main services separately?

FaithLife TV may be a great option for some. I already have access through another service to almost everything that is there and quite a bit more so it doesn't interest me personally.  But the service I use isn't available to individuals so what you all are doing probably does have a place.  

The Faithlife Courses as a subscription is a good option for someone who doesn't want to purchase a course too.  

The Faithlife Originals and Classics might be a good option for someone who wants access to those things.  You could even make a seperate low cost subscription for that.

And if I were a brand new customer to Faithlife, I think the idea of a package deal that contains all of your resources ie Faithlife Connect, would be appealing.  

But, I'm not a new customer.  Like many, the only reason that Faithlife (In my mind you'll always be Logos) came up on my radar is because of your Logos Bible Software.  That's the reason I'm here and if I'm honest, even know the company exists.  

Why not do this:

1) Offer your main subscription services, Logos Now, Faithlife Courses, and Faithlife TV as separate subscriptions services.  

AND

2) Offer them all as a bundle like you're trying to do with Faithlife Connect? Obviously Faithlife Connect would be the better deal if you want access to everything.

Both of them would have appeal for different people.  Everyone on this thread would be happy and every new (or current) customer that wants a bundle package without all the Logos features are going to be happy.  

Is the best of both worlds not possible?

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