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Posts 3
Leonard Madison | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Mar 1 2018 9:54 AM

Greetings,  I’m new to Logos and have been using the Olive Tree app for a couple of years. Resently I joined a bible study group called “Bible Study Fellowship “ BSF.  This has group has opened my eyes to my ignorance of the most important thing in my life; Gods Word.  Asking a minister at church on this subject I was told that if you really want to study the word you must use the Logos app.  Logos IS the preachers Bible Study app. Thats how I got here.  

The Logos iPad app appears very confusing to me compared to the OT APP.  I’m not giving up on LOGOS Just yet.  I was hoping for the forums opinion on the key stand out features not available in the OT app.  is it really worth dumping the Olive Tree app for Logos?   

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 1 2018 10:02 AM

Hi Leonard - and welcome to the forums

I don't use the Olivetree app so can't comment on that - but know of others who find it very helpful.

But if you can outline the things you find confusing about the Logos app we might be able to advise how to use it better

Graham

Posts 5318
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 1 2018 10:45 AM

Leonard Madison:
I was told that if you really want to study the word you must use the Logos app.

That is utter nonsense. Much of what the Logos mobile app can do is doable on OT and will do it without the need to use connectivity. The Word Study guide in Logos is more advanced than in OT but that said personally i still start all my word studies off in OT and rarely need to go into Logos unless I am looking to go to one of the larger multivolume lexical dictionaries I have in Logos. Text Comparison is a Logos feature you do not in OT and is handy for seeing how a verse is translated in all the versions you have. Exegetical Guide is another heavy duty tool from Logos with no duplication in OT but may be of lesser use if you are not really comfortable in the Greek and Hebrew. I am sure there are other things I am missing out but those are the big three in reasons why Logos is very valuable for study. That said it is a significant investment to get the resources behind those guides to make them truly useful. Now the are subscription plans I am not too well acquainted with called Faithlife Connect or a slightly more inexpensive one aimed at catholics called Verbum Now. And I do think that Logos base packages can be a fine investment in you spiritual growth. That said if you have a lot of books in OT it is no lightweight in helping you study.

-dan

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 1 2018 11:24 AM

1. If we're talking strictly iPad, I'd agree with the minister. I have Accordance, Olivetree, Laridian, and Logos. In order of an in-depth study, I'd put them in the order: Logos, Laridian, Accordance, Olivetree. We're talking more than a Bible and commentary or lexicon.

2. BSF is a group endeavor; you'll likely be on your own with Logos or Laridian. 

3. Logos is singularly expensive. The other 3 are considerably cheaper.

4. The latest Logos isn't a whole lot different than my browser (floating tabs, panels per tab, etc). But yes, more complicated than a 2-panel view. But if you're decently young, you'll be an expert in a day or so. My experience.

5. The tools in Logos far exceed the competition, and will likely grow. So, if you're really enthused, Logos will keep ahead of you.

6. Logos is now got a pretty good web app that you can run on your iPad. It's more powerful than the app, and is expanding faster.

In my mind, it depends on $$. Are you serious, or just want some more depth? And more important, what are your study partners using?

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 689
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 1 2018 11:41 AM

Leonard Madison:

Greetings,  I’m new to Logos and have been using the Olive Tree app for a couple of years. Resently I joined a bible study group called “Bible Study Fellowship “ BSF.  This has group has opened my eyes to my ignorance of the most important thing in my life; Gods Word.  Asking a minister at church on this subject I was told that if you really want to study the word you must use the Logos app.  Logos IS the preachers Bible Study app. Thats how I got here.  

The Logos iPad app appears very confusing to me compared to the OT APP.  I’m not giving up on LOGOS Just yet.  I was hoping for the forums opinion on the key stand out features not available in the OT app.  is it really worth dumping the Olive Tree app for Logos?   

I’m not sure why your pastor said it. It could be any of the following (or something else entirely):

  • free resources - if you’re taking your first steps into deeper reading/study, I think Logos has the best range of free books going - both the biggest (if you include Perseus) and the best - Faithlife study bible, Lexham bible dictionary, tons of images, videos etc and more free books every month - see here for the current range that you can add: https://www.logos.com/products/search?start=0&sort=pricelo&pageSize=60&unlocked=no
  • quality of tools - passage guide, exegetical guide, word study tool etc - if you’ve got a small number of commentaries/lexicons, the difference is negligible. If you have no internet connection Logos is worse. If you have either loads of resources or you’re relying completely on freebies (and you’re online), Logos often wins
  • number of high-quality resources available - Logos is generally considered to have the best range of books if you’re looking to buy a large library. It’s by no means a slam-dunk any more - other options exist with huge numbers of resources and there are some top-notch resources that you can’t get in Logos. But it’s still generally accepted that this is one of Logos’ strongest points - and the text formatting/layout is generally excellent.
  • PC/Mac app - Olive Tree can more than hold it’s own on mobile, but when you get to PC/Mac apps dealing with serious academic study, Olive Tree is somewhat underdeveloped - they’ve always been a mobile-first company, and keep their features restricted to what’s going to be most useful to the average user’s average bible study - which is fine, but it’s less powerful in some meaningful ways.
  • just misinformed - your pastor might purely have made his statement based purely on reputation over the years/limited exposure. Logos is a fine recommendation but so is Olive Tree and he might simply not be aware of just how good the competition is.
Posts 3
Leonard Madison | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 1 2018 2:09 PM

The reason why he said that Logos Is the tool to use was because thats what they used in similarly.

question:  1.  How do you open split screen with two different bible versions?

                 2.  While in parallel view is there a way to modify the translations?

After spending more more time with the app i’ve found the link for “Video Training”  I’ll spend some time with that and see if I can figure things out when I get more time.

Thanks for for the help

Posts 1
Matthew Huerta | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 9 2019 12:46 PM

Realizing this is an old thread, I will add that Logos is not what it used to be, and I recently tried the Olive Tree software just to see what it's like.  What I found is that for everyday ordinary lay-person study, there is absolutely no reason to spend the bucks and be stuck in the endless updating nightmare that is Logos. The company that bought Logos has ruined what it once was, and the only reason to purchase it is if you truly need high powered ability to search multiple publications at once for super in-depth study.

I am pleasantly surprised at the Olive Tree software these days, and I wouldn't buy Logos again. 

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 9 2019 1:56 PM

Matthew Huerta:
The company that bought Logos has ruined what it once was ...

It was sad, the day Libronix got purchased by those awful Bellingham boys. Actually, it's the same guys from the start ... they rename themselves every few years.

More seriously, Olivetree seems to have kept their eye on the ball. Logos fancied up (as is their policy). Any hint of simplicity gets removed quickly.  Accordance seems to be inching along. Their latest update finally allows a little library flexibility.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 19
Bryan Sherwood | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 25 2020 7:18 AM

Honestly, I own both and prefer using OliveTree over Logos.  Does Logos have more features?  Yes.  But I prefer a simpler interface and I find OliveTree does everything I need.  I was justing using it to prep for a 1 Peter Study I'm leading and have enjoyed using OliveTree.

Posts 11
Mark Griffin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2021 5:43 AM

The debate continues....

I've got both as well although my Logos version is more basic and I own more resources in OT. 

OT is easier to navigate and also easier on the eye. Being a predominantly mobile app it is more intuitive as well. The Logos mobile app has good functions and their tab feature enables far more resources to be opened than with OT which limits to two resources max via the parallel screen. However, Logos mobile does not link resources very well. The link function which enables a resource to follow the main bible window does not work with 'key' study tools such as the Passage Guide and Exegetical Guide. So every time you want to check these guides you have to manually enter the passage your are currently reading. Not so with OT, which has a very good study resources centre which enables all key study tools to follow the main window or at the very least provide references to it.

Search functionality in OT is not as good as Logos.

On the MAC, OT continues with the split window and uses the mobile platform pop-up window function for additional resources rather than tabs that are in most other bible software programmes like Logos. The window pop ups are good as they enable you to immediately see the reference you have clicked on if using hyperlinks or opening an additional resource, but they do have limitations on functionality and are liable to crash the software if you try and do too much with them. Logos, of course, does not have this problem and you can open lots of tabs with little problem and work within these sets easily. However, like other software, if you click on an hyperlink you often have to search for where that tab has opened. 

Graphical and study data is superior in Logos as are the training videos, which it needs because, as noted, it is not an intuitive system. OT training videos are very limited and it is not unusual to find videos that are outdated. For example, at the time of writing this post, their support blog is still showing a training video for an out of date version. That said, you pay a lot of money for Logos whereas the OT software is free.

Buying new resources in OT is cheaper than Logos particularly if you want items other than the bundled ones, which are mostly superfluous. However, Logos does include much better study aids with your purchase which is to be expected for the price. 

Which do I prefer? OT for readability and ease of navigation. It also more 'fun' to use. Logos is more of a labour of love and has placed the reader experience well below its academic credentials. You get a lot more depth of study in Logos whilst your bank balance gets more of a hammering. When I am at home group or in church or looking up a reference, I intuitively use the OT app on my iPad. It's quicker and easier. However, I will use Logos for more broader in depth study and searches. 

Posts 617
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2021 9:23 AM

Mark Griffin:
Which do I prefer? OT for readability and ease of navigation.

I think your points are all good. Just guessing, FL faces challenges that OT doesn't:

- FL has two competing customer demands. Good reader, vs mobile-Logos. The latter breaks up further into study vs sermon-support (and both).  OT is more a relaxed this-and-that. Few demands.

- FL grew up as a desktop solution, and just watching both the mobile and web-app, they're viewed as unpaid-for strap-hangers. 'As budgets permit.'  OT grew up as a mobile (my memory) similar to Laridian. Simplicity was always there, adding desktop as the strap-hanger.

- FL's policy of 80% development and return years later, will always create the thought ... gee, I wish FL had both.

Posts 11
Mark Griffin | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2021 10:06 AM

DMB:

Mark Griffin:
Which do I prefer? OT for readability and ease of navigation.

I think your points are all good. Just guessing, FL faces challenges that OT doesn't:

- FL has two competing customer demands. Good reader, vs mobile-Logos. The latter breaks up further into study vs sermon-support (and both).  OT is more a relaxed this-and-that. Few demands.

- FL grew up as a desktop solution, and just watching both the mobile and web-app, they're viewed as unpaid-for strap-hangers. 'As budgets permit.'  OT grew up as a mobile (my memory) similar to Laridian. Simplicity was always there, adding desktop as the strap-hanger.

- FL's policy of 80% development and return years later, will always create the thought ... gee, I wish FL had both.

One thing I had to amend on my post was that I'd mistakenly posted that the OT search function is as good as Logos. It isn't although adequate for what it does.

Yes, I agree that both excel at their respective origins (desktop for Logos and mobile for OT) and I too wish FL could make both their versions as user-friendly as OT.  I have in the past contacting OT asking why they couldn't make their desktop more desktop friendly particularly the option to use tabs, save study windows etc. I guess with all that development work done by FL the user experience can easily be forgotten. What can happen is that companies bolt more and more complex functionalities to older platforms to meet customer expectations which can, in the end, make it a complete box of nuts & bolts. Accordance reminds me of this. 

Regarding Logos though, if you are entering the mobile market then at least get some basics right. The fact that Logos for all its alleged superiority cannot get its core study tools to link to a main bible on the mobile platform is pretty poor in my opinion. But, as you have pointed out, if the mobile market is not really FL's thing then I doubt they are too bothered about it. 

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2021 12:24 PM

Mark Griffin:
The fact that Logos for all its alleged superiority cannot get its core study tools to link to a main bible on the mobile platform

I don't understand what you are meaning here

Could you clarify please?

Posts 1514
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2021 12:29 PM

Graham Criddle:

Mark Griffin:
The fact that Logos for all its alleged superiority cannot get its core study tools to link to a main bible on the mobile platform

I don't understand what you are meaning here

Could you clarify please?

I think Mark is referring to what he wrote in his first post:

Mark Griffin:

However, Logos mobile does not link resources very well. The link function which enables a resource to follow the main bible window does not work with 'key' study tools such as the Passage Guide and Exegetical Guide. So every time you want to check these guides you have to manually enter the passage your are currently reading. Not so with OT, which has a very good study resources centre which enables all key study tools to follow the main window or at the very least provide references to it.

Edit:

Mark (and Denise) has made some valid points. I have the OT app installed on my iPad and I like the basic functionality. For an average pastor the search function is good enough. They also sell some resources - even my preferred Bible translation - that are not available in Logos or Accordance. Nevertheless I have not actually invested any money in OT (partly because I keep thinking of what happened to Pradis).

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2021 1:27 PM

HJ. van der Wal:

I think Mark is referring to what he wrote in his first post:

Mark Griffin:

However, Logos mobile does not link resources very well. The link function which enables a resource to follow the main bible window does not work with 'key' study tools such as the Passage Guide and Exegetical Guide. So every time you want to check these guides you have to manually enter the passage your are currently reading. Not so with OT, which has a very good study resources centre which enables all key study tools to follow the main window or at the very least provide references to it.

Thanks HJ.

I thought that might be the case but wanted to be sure.

I agree it would be helpful if they would scroll together. I think the issue is that the tab linking mechanism on mobile is designed to link together tabs with similar "structures" and the PG (etc) are not linkable in this way. 

Posts 5899
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 8 2021 2:10 PM

HJ. van der Wal:
Nevertheless I have not actually invested any money in OT (partly because I keep thinking of what happened to Pradis).

Don't worry FL will pick it up and screw up the conversion of resources like they have with WS so you will have access to them in Logos but they'll just be very poor quality and you might struggle to get one or two of them converted properly because FL will try to do it all automatically and not understand what it is that they are converting and the odd book they might even admit to not actually receiving the file, but they'll keep you informed throughout the whole process at what a great job they are doing, so nothing to fear in buying OT resources that are not in Logos.

Posts 1
Matthew Davis | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 28 2021 4:04 PM

I can see it's an old post, but it still appears very much active. Prior to Logos Bible Software, I was an Olive Tree Bible person. I used it on my tablets, phones, laptops and desktops. I actually very much enjoyed Olive Tree, but having gone to Logos, I will never go back.

Immediately, the ability with Logos to customize your layout gives, in my opinion, so much in the study environment. On the phone, the multiple tabs, with most supporting Multiview is extremely helpful. In addition, settings books on different tabs to continue to scroll with you in your main Bible is phenomenal. On desktop, Olive Tree cannot come close to touching what Logos can do.

When it comes to searches, Logos is light years ahead of what Olive Tree can do. From searching exact phrases, to fuzzy phrases... To searches that include proximity, for example "fear WITHIN 5 WORDS not," or "Sabbath WITHIN 10 WORDS holy." I love to make use of the proximity searches. In addition, searching for Lemmas and Roots within Logos is far advanced to anything Olive Tree can do. While searching, I love that I can search the Old Testament, or the New Testament, just the Gospels, or any individual book. 

The Word Study in Logos is supreme compared to Olive Tree - while you can run word searches in Olive Tree, the tools Logos provides in way of translations, senses, looking up the subject of the word and so on I find more helpful.

Then there is the Logos factbook - There is nothing, truly, to compare that too with Olive Tree.

I find the note taking features of Logos, along with the clippings and highlighting tools to far outweigh that of Olive Tree.

Then, from a preachers perspective, the preaching tools, sermon writer, preaching mode, etc. gives so much value compared to Olive Tree... At the end of the day, Logos is a better tool in every way to Olive Tree, with a caveat, that is, if you are a serious Bible student. I would not recommend Logos to someone who gets lost and confused easily using technology, nor would I recommend Logos to someone who doesn't seriously intend to study the Word of God.

Now, can someone study the Word seriously using Olive Tree? Absolutely - there are thousands who have come before us who were serious students of the Bible and had nothing in the means of technology. Yes, you can study with Olive Tree, or with E-Sword, or with a physical copy of the Bible. Do I believe your study can progress much further using Logos, absolutely. I can attest to that as someone who has found so much value in this software.

Posts 11
Mark Griffin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 29 2021 4:01 PM

My main gripe is with the Logos mobile functionality. It’s not as good as OT. In Logos many resources don’t follow the main resource. Neither does the split screen. The passage guide does not follow the chapter/verse of the bible you are reading. You have to manually enter. All these are standard in the OT mobile app, which makes OT far more pleasant a d quicker to use on a phone or tablet. 

Logos desktop is indeed more powerful and it’s search function far better than OT but OT on a desktop is still a better visual experience.

Posts 617
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 29 2021 6:52 PM

Mark Griffin:
My main gripe is with the Logos mobile functionality. It’s not as good as OT. In Logos many resources don’t follow the main resource.

I really wonder if the issue is in their (FL's) 'milestones' design (straight out of the Roman Empire).  Even the desktop struggles, where the panel sizes are small, and the verse matching can be off quite a bit. If you're not directly in the milestone zone, it doesn't know where you are. Then on mobile, it just doesn't know where you are, period. Basic design.

It's certainly a cute design, though.

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