Visual filter flaw

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Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, May 5 2010 11:01 AM

Sometimes I find these but don't always report them. So here is a report.  The Visual filter doesn't work on "does". There are three morphology tags on this group of words and the filter does not react correctly.

12       All   have   turned !   aside together   they   have   become  
πάντες1 ἐξέκλιναν2 ἅμα3
worthless !
ἠχρεώθησαν4
no   one   does !   good
οὐκ5 ἔστιν6 7 ποιῶν8 χρηστότητα9
not !   even   one .” 
οὐκ10 ἔστιν11 ἕως12 ἑνός13

The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. (Wheaton: Standard Bible Society, 2001), Ro 3:12.
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 5 2010 11:33 AM

Ron Corbett:
The Visual filter doesn't work on "does".

That is so weird that I had to try it - I used the ESV to try the recreation:

 

It appears to work for me so there must be an additional variable that makes it fail.

 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 5 2010 8:02 PM

Martha, you appear to be doing a custom highlighting style, not a Visual Filter.

Ron, could you show us a screen shot of your visual filter definition? I can't tell what rules you are using for your four colors from this pasted text. And when you say "the filter does not react correctly," it would be helpful to know how you are expecting it to react which is different from what you see. Thanks!

 

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Ron Corbett | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 19 2010 3:11 AM

Hi Rosie,

Sorry for the long delay, its been busy here.

Here is the NA27 with the blue used for Accusative, large bold green for present active imperative and large green for present imperative :

μὴ   ὑψηλὰ   φρόνει   ἀλλὰ   φοβοῦ ·
Not high think but fear
BN TN  JAPN  VPAM2S  CLC  VPUM2S 

and here is my ESV with the same filters where these distinctions have been lost:

. So do not become proud, but fear.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As you can see, there are several different morphological tags in the NA27 which have all been misread in the English ESV. This kind of thing is not the rule, but does occur fairly frequently. When we have different cases in the Greek which are not distinguished in the morphology in the English texts or are misread by the filter - I don't know which - the visual filter does not accurately reflect the underlying Greek morphology. if one English word has 2-3 Greek words (with different morphologies) behind it, the filter chooses one and they all get jumbled together. 

I have a post somewhere on the forum that lists in detail my Visual Filter system. I will try to find it and post the link here, but I hope this helps to communicate what is amiss.

 

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Rosie Perera | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 19 2010 3:18 AM

Hi again Ron,

Sorry for not noticing this the first time. But you've reported this in the "General" forum where it is not likely to be noticed as a bug or problem report. Best to report it as with the prefix "Bug:" in the Logos 4 forum or the PC Beta forum.

I'm not actually a good person to be responding to this, because I don't know Greek at all. Hopefully someone else will pick up on it and have something more intelligent to say. I don't know whether Logos could do this any better, since English doesn't have the same cases and tenses and such as Greek does.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 19 2010 5:32 AM

So do not become proud

is a translation of a Greek idiom - there is no simple association with the underlying Greek words and the filter that stuck happens to be accusative (blue). You can see the same effect  in the results of a normal search for one of the morphological criteria. Another example is Ro 12:16 "live in harmony".

Dave
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