Editing a Bibliography Document

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Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, May 31 2018 12:10 AM

I'm guessing that there is no way to edit a bibliography document if I think a source is being cited incorrectly?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2018 12:54 AM

Jordan Litchfield:

I'm guessing that there is no way to edit a bibliography document if I think a source is being cited incorrectly?

You can delete individual entries but you can't change them.

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Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2018 1:09 AM

Graham Criddle:
You can delete individual entries but you can't change them.

Yes, I knew they could be deleted. However, some of them are not correct and need editing.

I'm assuming then that the only way to address it is to report it to Logos? That seems like a time-consuming approach if you have to do that every time you find an error.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2018 1:26 AM

Jordan Litchfield:
I'm assuming then that the only way to address it is to report it to Logos?

Yes, that's correct

Jordan Litchfield:
That seems like a time-consuming approach if you have to do that every time you find an error.

If you are seeing some sort of "systemic" problem - such as the problem is worse in older resources than newer ones, or in a particular series - that might help in tracking down the problem and, potentially, in getting it fixed.

What sort of citation issues are you seeing?

Posts 401
Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2018 6:17 AM

Graham Criddle:
What sort of citation issues are you seeing?

The problems are diverse and don't seem to belong to any particular series or period. In fact, most of them seem to be more recent books.

In this particular case I have collected a bibliography of any type of commentary I have on Exodus. I have used the Chicago Manual of Style, which is what I used when doing my MTh at Queen's University Belfast. So I would feel fairly confident with the style. The issues can be categorized into the following:

1. Problems with the place of publishing.

α. Some are simple, such as the one by Blackburn below. It should be "Nottingham, England", or just "Nottingham".

  • Blackburn, W. Ross. The God Who Makes Himself Known: The Missionary Heart of the Book of Exodus. Edited by D. A. Carson. Vol. 28. New Studies in Biblical Theology. England; Downers Grove, IL: Apollos; InterVarsity Press, 2012.

β. With others, there seems to be an inconsistency of whether or not the American state is included or not.

א. Sometimes it isn't:

  • Henry, Matthew. Matthew Henry’s Commentary on the Whole Bible: Complete and Unabridged in One Volume. Peabody: Hendrickson, 1994.
  • Latch, Edward B. Indications of the Second Book of Moses Called Exodus. Philadelphia: J. B. Lippincott Company, 1892.
  • Richards, Lawrence O. The Bible Reader’s Companion. Electronic ed. Wheaton: Victor Books, 1991.

ב. Sometimes it is:

  • Keil, Carl Friedrich, and Franz Delitzsch. Commentary on the Old Testament. Vol. 1. Peabody, MA: Hendrickson, 1996.
  • Lauterbach, Jacob Zallel. Mekilta de-Rabbi Ishmael. New ed. Philadelphia, Pa: Jewish Publication Society, 2004.
  • Willmington, H. L. The Outline Bible. Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers, 1999.

2. Odd numbers being included. I cannot make any sense out of the numbers I have put a strike-through below. They seem unnecessary to me - but maybe I am mistaken. The only consistency characteristic seems to be that they are all 'book sections'.

  • Brown, S. L. “Exodus.” In A New Commentary on Holy Scripture: Including the Apocrypha, edited by Charles Gore, Henry Leighton Goudge, and Alfred Guillaume, 1:66. New York: The Macmillan Company, 1942.
  • Hannah, John D. “Exodus.” In The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures, edited by J. F. Walvoord and R. B. Zuck, 1:108. Wheaton, IL: Victor Books, 1985.
  • Hoffmeier, James K. “Exodus.” In Evangelical Commentary on the Bible, 3:38. Baker Reference Library. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Book House, 1995.
  • Johnstone, William D. “Exodus.” In Eerdmans Commentary on the Bible, edited by James D. G. Dunn and John W. Rogerson, 72. Grand Rapids, MI; Cambridge, U.K.: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2003.
  • Junior, Nyasha. “Exodus.” In Women’s Bible Commentary, edited by Carol A. Newsom, Jacqueline E. Lapsley, and Sharon H. Ringe, Revised and Updated., 56. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press, 2012.
  • Merrill, Eugene H. “The Pentateuch.” In Holman Concise Bible Commentary, edited by David S. Dockery, 21. Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishers, 1998.
  • Power, E. “Exodus.” In A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, edited by Bernard Orchard and Edmund F. Sutcliffe, 206. Toronto;New York;Edinburgh: Thomas Nelson, 1953.

3. The editors of a series being included in the citation. This is not necessary, and not normal either.

α. The following citations unnecessarily include the editors of the series:

  • Bruckner, James K. Exodus. Edited by W. Ward Gasque, Robert L. Hubbard Jr., and Robert K. Johnston. Understanding the Bible Commentary Series. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Books, 2012.
  • Childs, Brevard S. The Book of Exodus: A Critical, Theological Commentary. Edited by Peter Ackroyd, James Barr, Bernhard W. Anderson, and James L. Mays. The Old Testament Library. Louisville, KY: Westminster John Knox Press, 2004.

β. But notice from the following example that Logos does not consistently include the series editors. There were many others like the one below:

  • Enns, Peter. Exodus. The NIV Application Commentary. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2000.

4. Miscellaneous errors.

α. The "trans." in the citation of Clarke's commentary. Normally this would suggest the person listed was the translator of the work, but of course that is not true in this case.

  • Clarke, Adam, trans. The Holy Bible with a Commentary and Critical Notes. New Edition. Vol. 1. Bellingham, WA: Faithlife Corporation, 2014.

β. The obvious confusion in the following:

  • Dockery, David S., Trent C. Butler, Christopher L. Church, Linda L. Scott, Marsha A. Ellis Smith, James Emery White, and Tenn.) Holman Bible Publishers (Nashville. Holman Bible Handbook. Nashville, TN: Holman Bible Publishers, 1992.

γ. The lack of spaces between the locations of publishing:

  • Power, E. “Exodus.” In A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, edited by Bernard Orchard and Edmund F. Sutcliffe, 206. Toronto;New York;Edinburgh: Thomas Nelson, 1953.

δ. The following citation should be reading "Simon, Patrick." It is true that he was bishop of Ely, but this is not how it should be cited.

  • Symon, Lord Bishop of Ely. A Commentary upon the Second Book of Moses, Called Exodus. Second Edition Corrected. London: Ri. Chiswell, at the Rose and Crown, 1704.

In a document listing 81 citations, there are at least 15 incorrect citations, which is quite a bit really. If this feature is going to be worthwhile to me, then I need Logos to get this right, or at least make it possible to correct them myself.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2018 6:43 AM

Hi Jordan

Some great (worrying) examples - hopefully someone from Faithlife will see and comment.

One detail:

Jordan Litchfield:
2. Odd numbers being included. I cannot make any sense out of the numbers I have put a strike-through below. They seem unnecessary to me - but maybe I am mistaken. The only consistency characteristic seems to be that they are all 'book sections'.

The numbers seem to be the page number within the specific article.

Posts 401
Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 31 2018 6:56 AM

Graham Criddle:
The numbers seem to be the page number within the specific article.

Interesting. That may explain some of the numbers, but others seem to be in a "volume:page" format, e.g., "Hoffmeier.... 3:38". Which doesn't make sense to me.

Posts 401
Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 4 2018 8:06 AM

Graham Criddle:
Some great (worrying) examples - hopefully someone from Faithlife will see and comment.

Here's hoping that a FL rep will notice this post...

Posts 494
Richard Villanueva | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 4 2018 11:13 AM

Having just written my first extensive paper and using Logos to cite 70+ sources, this was my first time using the bibliography tool.

I'd agree with all these concerns, as it was not as simple as "drag, drop, and forget".  I had to cull through them and make modifications, and double check authors and check for consistency.  

I am fine with doing my due-diligence and going over my work, that seems to be part of the process of writing. I'm also grateful for the time this bibliography tool saved in organizing and sorting for me.  It also got me a huge head-start.

However, as the facts have been stated there is room for improvement and accuracy.  I wanted to add my thumbs up for any changes Logos could make in updating resource bibliography and improving the tool.

PS: And any way of adding Page Numbers to older resources that are lacking them would be a HUGE improvement!!

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Michael S. | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 4 2018 11:40 AM

Jordan Litchfield:

Graham Criddle:
What sort of citation issues are you seeing?

The problems are diverse and don't seem to belong to any particular series or period. In fact, most of them seem to be more recent books.

...

In a document listing 81 citations, there are at least 15 incorrect citations, which is quite a bit really. If this feature is going to be worthwhile to me, then I need Logos to get this right, or at least make it possible to correct them myself.

Wow, that is a little troubling to me.  With such an automatic feature (as it is promoted to be), this causes concern- as I don't want to have to pull the hand book to double check each citation!  I hope this gets corrected asap.

Posts 401
Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 5 2018 11:01 AM

Yes, this is concerning. Even if I am transferring it to something like Zotero, it seems that I lose the publisher place names in the process. Maybe this is a problem with the exporting format (BibTex), but I expected Logos to offer more exporting options.

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SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 23 2018 1:30 PM

My workaround is to ignore the Bibliography feature and use Zotero. I hope that FL will fix this in time for Verbum/Logos 8....

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 23 2018 10:09 PM

SineNomine:

My workaround is to ignore the Bibliography feature and use Zotero. I hope that FL will fix this in time for Verbum/Logos 8....

The meta data for a lot of resources would need to be corrected to overcome this problem. Dodgy resource meta data has been a long standing issue that FL has yet to address adequately. For those who would benefit from this feature I hope this is resolved one day sooner than later.

Posts 401
Jordan Litchfield | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Jun 24 2018 12:27 AM

doc:
The meta data for a lot of resources would need to be corrected to overcome this problem. Dodgy resource meta data has been a long standing issue that FL has yet to address adequately.

That's concerning. Of course, I can also work around it through Zotero. However, if the feature is there, it needs to work properly, or be removed.

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