Bringing Your BibleWorks User Content to Logos

Thanks Phil... I was never a BW user but it is great to see you and Accordance working to make sure BW users are not left behind. 

-dan

Interesting. When Logos talked with me as a potential reviewer, years ago, I expressly asked about the BW verse-by-verse notes feature, which I prize extremely highly (https://goo.gl/tHQIV). Heiser was on the phone, and were you as well? The answer I got was "No."

So, to be clear, is Logos looking forward to providing that feature now?

In the same way that I do not believe Accordance's cross grade gives a completely identical set of works to what you own in BW I believe Logos is working on a way to import into their ecosystem the essence of your notes for use in Logos. One cannot expect Logos to magically gain new features it has never had but preserving your work in a accessible fashion is laudable even if it is not quite as good as you may have had it in BW. And who knows notes may be beefed up in the upcoming 8 release to make them more functional this I do not know.

-dan

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

One of the things we're planning to implement in the future is the ability to link a resource to a notes panel,

Would there be any possibility of having a  notes symbol next to a verse, so that we can hover over or click on the symbol and see a pop up of our note?  This would be so valuable.

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

Is this what you're referring to, or did you have something else in mind?

Thanks Phil.  I guess I was doing notes all wrong.  I had never seen this ability.  Now I will use it.

My only question is whether it is possible to save all notes one has in his/her Bible in a Word Doc for back up and use for writing sermons or papers.  In other words, can all notes be exported to an external doc?  I wrote notes in my Bible when I was young and they are valuable to me but not transferable...so it is important to me to be able to export ALL notes in the Bible or in a book of the Bible into a separate document.

Adding my interest to this possibility...

Beloved said:

I am not a BW user but i applaud FL leadership in this arena.

I very much agree - its good leadership.  Its also makes financial sense for Faithlife to encourage BW users across. Keep well Paul  

I know many in the BibleWorks' community will appreciate Faith Life and Accordance looking into how to assist users.

The closure of BibleWorks does highlight one of the dangers with digital libraries. I own a license for HALOT/BDAG for use in BibleWorks. Unlike the book (which I also own), I don't own the content (the difference between a license and ownership) and the license is not portable to other digital programs even though it costs hundreds of dollars.

I don't think Faith Life / Logos or Accordance has much leverage in these situations with the publishers. But the Accordance packages, to cross grade to their platform for original language research tools similar to core BibleWorks and add in HALOT/BDAG is cost prohibitive to many. If publishers made content licenses portable it would take a lot of the risk and sting out of these situations. And this is not a unique situation (it has happened in the other medias such as music, movies, and games in the past) and even if a company is strong for a couple decades (I have used BW for 20 years) doesn't mean they will always be solvent.

Personally, I have been looking at the Logos content. The customizable layouts look great and their tools have really come a long way since the last time I used Logos. You guys have a great product. When I had to call support many years ago your staff were fantastic and Michael Heiser has always been a great host when I visited (non-Logos activity). I am certain whatever you guys come up with will bless some BW users who now need a digital Bible study home. The idea of migrating is painful for many, though, as items like HALOT are not only expensive (short term expense) it feels like you are signing up for a second go-around on the digital license merry-go-round.

Not a discussion for here but I don't think the analogy works when comparing consumables with content ownership. The shift from content ownership to licenses to software as services has been gradual and is a business model these industries have adopted (and not without explicit examples of anti-consumer backdoor dealings, e.g. Apple and the big publishers). I work in business and understand that frequently product is sold below cost as profits are spread across the entire product (very common in production environments where a small loss on 90% volume business, offset but larger margins on the other 10%, is necessary as that 90% sold at a loss is better than not selling that 90% at all!) I cannot know if the tagging of HALOT/BDAG is a loss leader covered up by the "digitizing team" or if it is $50/per copy sold to date (and ever decreasing as it is a sunk cost).

My only intent was to comment on how the closure of BibleWorks, and its relation to digital content, is painful. I wasn't criticizing Faith Life / Logos. But I guess I wasn't expecting being "told" how it is. I know how it is--Brill Academic primarily sells to the libraries with limited distributions and their products are very expensive. And there is no incentive to offer license portability. It is their model, but as a consumer it is painful. Just as it was painful when I was working on my thesis that Angelomorphic Christology was over $200 with Brill Academic but is now $40 through Baylor University Press. Same book and content, different business model and accessibility. Life isn't fair and I intended no slight to Logos.

I for one look forward to hearing what their plans are. I plan to use BibleWorks for a while (still a great program) but it is obvious at some point I will need to move on as I hope, the Lord willing, I have at least another 30 years of labor ahead in the word. Maybe Logos will have some cross packages that are too good to be true and resist. Even if they have nothing to offer (totally understandable for which they need make no excuse) Logos is a good company with a very good product and I think it is a benefit to believers in general.

That said what is happening right now in the Bible software space does bring a focus on, from a consumer perspective, the pain of losing access to content when the digital content cost as much as the paper copy (I paid less for HALOT hard copy than I did for the digital edition). For those affected it does influence how they feel about re-investing in digital libraries. It does for me, at least.

Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:

How much would you be willing to pay to have your notes and highlights from an old Bible transferred? What if the book was damaged or destroyed in the process?

I paid my kids to do it for me.  They got to read my Bible notes, and I got my notes transferred. [:D]  Well at least the ones they could read [:O]