older books

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Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 6:18 AM

Thank you.  I will look into this, though I don't usually have much success with computer things that require more than a few steps.

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 6:25 AM

I find it hard to believe that FL doesn't make money on CP.  Yes, users bid on the books, but FL knows how much money they need for production.  If they are not making enough money, then they are underestimating their costs or just making a poor (?) business decision.

You say older titles don't sell well.  When I started with Logos, CP was doing very well.  Book were constantly coming out and being published.  But then they stopped pushing them.  I am on Logos everyday all day and I haven't heard a word about CP in a very long time.

You sound like they would need to hire a fulltime person.  Hardly.  Just talk about it.  Introduce a new bundle everyday.  Many of them already have excellent write-ups, but there isn't any exposure anymore.

As for the gold mine, these are proven works.  Somehow 'pubic domain' sounds like its cheapening the value of the books, like dime novels. 

Thank you for the prayers, but I would much prefer we focus on getting these books published.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 1:24 PM

Larry Craig:
I find it hard to believe that FL doesn't make money on CP.

That is their stated position... I am sure some make some money and some may lose money. If the estimated cost of production is $100, then they need 100 bidders at $1 or 1 bidder at $100. Either way, at the end of it the goal is to give people a good value of a resource. Of course, once the resource is "published" into Logos, anyone who purchases it later (not at CP prices) will end up making money for FL. 

Larry Craig:
As for the gold mine, these are proven works.  Somehow 'pubic domain' sounds like its cheapening the value of the books, like dime novels.

I agree that "public domain" does make the resources sound like valueless resources, which they are not... but that is simply the terminology for resources for which no copyright is still held. I do disagree on one point: The resources were (past tense) "proven" works. They are no longer so. That doesn't mean that they no longer have value, it just means that people (in numbers) no longer value them. Oftentimes they simply need to be "rediscovered." That is why each book needs a champion... and why I asked you to pick ONE book to do so! Seldom is anyone able to start a movement focused on the big picture... rather, the movement begins by one person championing one small part.

I do wholeheartedly agree with you that we (communally) have a prejudice towards old things (including books). We think we are so smart because we live today... but it isnt so! 

Larry Craig:
I will look into this, though I don't usually have much success with computer things that require more than a few steps.

Creating basic personal books is really quite easy... as long as you have (or can easily create) a Microsoft Word (.docx) file. If you have any questions, just ask. 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 1:28 PM

Here is a post by a FL employee (today!). Although it doesn't directly relate to CP, it does provide insight. 

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Hi all,

We have this book on our list of books to license. Once we have a license, it will go up on our pre-order program and go into production right away.

A few notes on our licensing and production process/policy:

1. In an ideal world, we'd have every book live and available for sale the day the publisher releases it. It would be the best for our customers and the best for us.

2. We've tried to address this issue to some extent with our pre-order program. We are continuing to ramp that up as we feel more confident in our ability to choose resources we believe will be successful.

3. Because there is extra work that must be done to create a Logos edition, we often cannot put a live product up on our site the same day the publisher does. We try when we can, but it depends on getting materials early enough to get the work done. Sometimes, this just isn't possible.

4. There are certain situations where we just can't get a book. Sometimes there are good reasons for it, sometimes not. In most of these cases, we are not free to share the details of the negotiations. 

Having said all of that, I feel your pain--really. I love books. I have a massive print-book library at home. There are a many of these print books I'd love to see in Logos (e.g. books like Barth's Romans volume). It's painful not to have them available.

I'm grateful for your love of books and enthusiasm to have them all in Logos. We will continue to improve our ability to have more books available as quickly as possible.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 1:30 PM

Larry Craig:
I find it hard to believe that FL doesn't make money on CP.  Yes, users bid on the books, but FL knows how much money they need for production.  If they are not making enough money, then they are underestimating their costs or just making a poor (?) business decision.

Profit = Revenue - Expenses so concur Faithlife (FL) should be Profitable on Community Pricing (CP) resources. Caveat since humanly not know if CP Profit would buy a lunch. Thankful FL is profitable enough for 300 employees (and their families). Unfortunately when realized revenue is substantially lower than projected, FL has monetary incentive to lay off employees for expense reduction. Thankful for FL portfolio profitably changing: e.g. FL TV, Mobile Ed, Proclaim, ...

Larry Craig:
When I started with Logos, CP was doing very well.  Book were constantly coming out and being published. 

Noticed CP bidding by community has slowed down over several years, which may correlate with drop in M.Div degree pursuit (noted by BibleWorks sales decrease as demand for original language learning/mastery has dropped). Thankful for many friendly forum discussions: have learned a lot plus have a lot to learn (along with remembering many who have not posted/replied over many months, which may be another CP correlation).

Larry Craig:
I am on Logos everyday all day and I haven't heard a word about CP in a very long time.

On 6-6-18, FL sent "Logos Pre-Pub and Community Pricing" email about Appian's Roman History (8 vols.)

Keep Smiling Smile

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 2:42 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):
On 6-6-18, FL sent "Logos Pre-Pub and Community Pricing" email about Appian's Roman History (8 vols.)

Placed a bid! 

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Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 4:39 PM

If FL is not making money on CP, that is their choice.  They decide how much money they will make on each bundle.  IF it was my company, I would push CP just as I do everything else.  Everyday I would feature a new bundle on the home page with a good blurb on it.  Many of them already have such a blurb.  Negligible cost to FL.  I was a manager for much of my previous life.  I was very good at making money for my company.  One thing I focused on was variety, having the most choices available for my customers. And for a customer base as FL has, they can easily clean out the CP file with a little effort.

People in numbers don't value the older books, because they have been taught not to or just not exposed to them.  Yet pastors are urged to buy Spurgeon.  We have to teach every generation. 

You want me to pick ONE book and champion it.  Who is going to read what I say about that one book?  Three people?  If FL can just see the potential here, they can make a lot of money with very little effort.  Like I said, I also offered three suggestions in addition to this one on how to clean out CP.  Nobody's buying them.

Personal books I have done.  We'll see what I can do here.

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 4:49 PM

FL decides how much money they want to make on CP.  If it won't buy a lunch, that is their choice.  But I don't see why that is necessary.

It would take minimal effort to highlight one resource on the home page.  Many of the resources already have excellent blurbs that can sell them.

CP is a good product.  They can make a lot of money if they choose to do so..  And they can with very little effort.  They already did the hard part.

Thank you

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 4:51 PM

To Ben

"We will continue to improve our ability to have more books available as quickly as possible."

Thank you

Larry Craig

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 4:58 PM

That's one, and I missed it.  Sorry.

There are 26 pages of CP.  Do one a day.  No extra expenses.  Most already have good descriptions.

Thank you

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 5:13 PM

I installed eSword, but I didn't find a whole lot of public domain books, particularly ones I don't already have.

But thank you

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jun 18 2018 9:06 PM

I looked at all the work you did, and I am impressed.  Thank you.

Having said that, I read the sheet, downloaded TheWord.  I did eSword earlier.  TheWord certainly has a lot of Bibles available.  I saw two I might be interested in  JFB Commentary, but that appears in an abridged version and the complete.  I have the abridged and the complete is sitting in CP.  So I didn't download anything.

I am angry and disappointed in FL.  This CP program has such great potential and they gave up on it.  They are a ministry and a business.  They need to stay in business to have a ministry.  The business part is to sell books and software.  And they gave up on this.

All they need to do is to feature one resource in CP on the Home Page everyday.  Maybe have a blog feature one too (different audience).  The blurbs are already in place.  No added costs.  When they talked about CP more, they got a better response.  Ignore it, and it will be ignored.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond.

Posts 932
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Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2018 10:41 AM

Since we're on the topic of older books, I wanted to bring up this set https://www.logos.com/product/29735/recensio-synoptica-annotationis-sacrae

It's been up on community pricing for a while. I'm afraid that the title has been confusing and/or intimidating to many people. Other resources like it have done well. It's probably worth another look.

From the overview: 

"The nine-volume set contains annotations from classical and rabbinical authors, the Church Fathers, and contemporary English and Continental biblical scholars. In addition, Rev. Bloomfield has incorporated notes from his 18 years of classical, biblical, and literary study of the Greek language."

Director, Bible Study Products Department

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2018 10:48 AM

I bid $85 on that, the max. 

I am disappointed and angry that FL gave up on CP.  All they need to do is put a different resource the home page every day and a blog post, and they can get it up and running.

I am amazed at what a lot of these older books have done, the kind of hard work in compiling and comparing information, their use of older, classical, and foreign resources, their insights, and their deep spirituality. 

Thank you

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2018 11:18 AM

Larry Craig:
I am disappointed and angry that FL gave up on CP.  All they need to do is put a different resource the home page every day and a blog post, and they can get it up and running.

While humanly not like, prefer to Pray with Thanksgiving (rather than be angry, which gives place for adversarial attack).

Observation: both home page updates and blog posts incur expense for Faithlife (using valuable employee time).

Thankful for https://books.logos.com having 8,000+ classics that can be downloaded to your Logos installation for reading.

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 2188
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2018 1:33 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):
I'm afraid that the title has been confusing and/or intimidating to many people. Other resources like it have done well. It's probably worth another look.

I agree and I agree

Posts 2188
Mark | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2018 1:36 PM

Larry Craig:
All they need to do is put a different resource the home page every day and a blog post, and they can get it up and running.

I would agree that if there was an algorism written to automatically or randomly put on on the home page or blog post each day a different cp title, it would greatly help the situation.

Posts 897
Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2018 1:58 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Since we're on the topic of older books, I wanted to bring up this set https://www.logos.com/product/29735/recensio-synoptica-annotationis-sacrae

Thanks for bringing it up. I used to scour the CP listings periodically to make sure I didn't miss anything. I know I originally had good reasons for ruling this one out, but now you've given me good reasons to bid!

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2018 2:04 PM

algorithm?  One reader here asked me for one book on CP to push.  In a matter of minutes, I had 5 pages of titles that I wanted to see published.  Most of them already had good blurbs written about them.  It should take FL maybe 5 minutes a day tops to pick out a resource in CP and post it on the home page.  Maybe another 5 minutes to write a note encouraging users to visit CP regularly, and they can reuse this every few weeks.

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 19 2018 2:17 PM

I try to avoid anger, but there are a lot of times in the Bible that someone got angry for good reason.  FL gave up on a good program.  It's hard to see all these good resources out of reach, because somebody decided to pull the plug.

FL is a ministry and a business.  If the business doesn't do well, there is no ministry.  I've been in business most of my life.  It was my duty to make it easier for a customer to buy something.  FL can sell a lot of good books if they want to.  Yes, it takes a little effort, but most of the work is done.  The books are gathered, the blurbs are written.

I went to books.logos site.  I downloaded a lot of books, but I still want FL to start pushing CP again.  I see a lot of people making excuses for them, but I'm not buying them.

Thank you for writing.  As always

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