What is the best Christian resource on dinosaurs?

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Posts 1391
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 5:56 AM

Francis:

I am looking for a scholarly treatment of the question. I am not interested in vague references to Behemoth and Leviathan or endless questioning of datation, allegations of fraud, etc. I am interested in a resource that takes the evidence seriously and deals with it with scholarly rigour in relation to the Christian faith and creationism.

Put differently I am not looking for a book that makes Christians feel good and think they're okay. I am more interested in a resource that would be a compelling case for a critically-minded unbeliever. 

Any recommendation (preferably in Logos)?

Francis, I haven't seen many threads hijacked as badly as this one has been.  I was very interested in your original post and the resource responses it would bring.  Instead it's devolved into some rather nasty attacks and counter-attacks.  I wish those wanting to debate would start a new thread.

I want to thank those who have actually responded to your request and would very much like to know if anyone has any more resource suggestions matching your criterion, or at least attempting to approach the subject more from that perspective.

Posts 10126
Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 8:39 AM

Rick Ausdahl:

Francis, I haven't seen many threads hijacked as badly as this one has been.  I was very interested in your original post and the resource responses it would bring.  Instead it's devolved into some rather nasty attacks and counter-attacks.  I wish those wanting to debate would start a new thread.

I want to thank those who have actually responded to your request and would very much like to know if anyone has any more resource suggestions matching your criterion, or at least attempting to approach the subject more from that perspective.

Rick, I understand your point. But a forum is just that. Bob characterizes it as a coffeetable. Conversations swirl ... the originator tries to return to his/her question. It swirls again. People hijack by definition.

In this case the swirling is quite ancient. A segment of the jews early on were embarrassed by the account ... some literally re-wrote it, others turned it into symbolism. In both cases, versus new learning, etc. We're talking pre-Jesus, who apparently was concerned with the future.. And the question gets people wound up.  Francis knew that .. even tried to caution.

And I enjoy both the text, and palaeontology. I buy expensive books on the text at $60-90 a clip. I buy $60-90 books on geology and fossils. Bunches. There's just not a lot of common ground between the two, vs being honest with Francis' critically-minded unbeliever. You end up exactly where the jews ended up 2,500 years ago. And the same heated opinions.

So, maybe there is such a book?


Posts 6337
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 8:43 AM

I believe in Behemoth, Leviathan and T-Rex 🦖 because I have T-Rex arms 👍😁👌 Plus, God made us!

DAL

Posts 1391
Rick Ausdahl | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Oct 27 2018 9:02 AM

Denise:

Rick Ausdahl:

Francis, I haven't seen many threads hijacked as badly as this one has been.  I was very interested in your original post and the resource responses it would bring.  Instead it's devolved into some rather nasty attacks and counter-attacks.  I wish those wanting to debate would start a new thread.

I want to thank those who have actually responded to your request and would very much like to know if anyone has any more resource suggestions matching your criterion, or at least attempting to approach the subject more from that perspective.

Rick, I understand your point. But a forum is just that. Bob characterizes it as a coffeetable. Conversations swirl ... the originator tries to return to his/her question. It swirls again. People hijack by definition.

In this case the swirling is quite ancient. A segment of the jews early on were embarrassed by the account ... some literally re-wrote it, others turned it into symbolism. In both cases, versus new learning, etc. We're talking pre-Jesus, who apparently was concerned with the future.. And the question gets people wound up.  Francis knew that .. even tried to caution.

And I enjoy both the text, and palaeontology. I buy expensive books on the text at $60-90 a clip. I buy $60-90 books on geology and fossils. Bunches. There's just not a lot of common ground between the two, vs being honest with Francis' critically-minded unbeliever. You end up exactly where the jews ended up 2,500 years ago. And the same heated opinions.

So, maybe there is such a book?

I don't at all mind debate--even spirited debate.  But it does bother me when people become disrespectful.  Having said that, my point is that I have an interest in following this thread based on the thread topic/title which does clearly correspond to the request in the original post.  It's frustrating to keep visiting the thread to read new post after post, only to find they do nothing to address the request of the thread's originator.  So I would appreciate it if those interested in debating the topic of dinosaurs could start a new thread.

That's all I'll say on the matter as I don't want to be guilty of hijacking the thread myself. Zip it!IndifferentZip it!

Posts 3024
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 8:40 AM

Skimming this thread for the on-topic stuff, I haven't seen any recommendations of articles in scholarly journals in resources offered by FL. Are there any such that would help meet Francis's needs?

Posts 650
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 9:42 AM

Rick Carmickle:

 I understand what you are asking about, however, let me offer an alternative perspective. The question of dinosaurs is a scientific question about paleontology. Because the geological, astronomical, and paleontological  evidence is clear and irrefutable, as believers it’s time to except the evidence of science. The universe is 14.3 billion years old, and the earth 4.5 billion years old. And the  dinosaurs lived 66 to 250,000,000 years ago. In fact, the T-Rex is closer in time to us than the Stegosaurus. With that, the best resource is a paleontology book on dinosaurs. Unfortunately, Christians don’t write those very often.

I love my Christian brothers who have a different perspective on the timeline of creation. But Answers in Genesis is simply deceiving fellow believers from the truth God has made apparent to those who look.  And I like the recommendations of John Walton’s Works. 

Well said. Followers of the one who called himself The Truth should be willing to seek truth where ever it is found. We should also have a standard of excellence in our thinking, learning, and scholarship. God did not leave all of the fossil evidence and make the earth/universe merely look really old just to mess with our heads. The heavens and the earth declare God's glory and we should begin listening to them. The Bible is not a science book, was never intended to be, and is not at odds with science. The Bible was written by a group of ancient authors with ancient conceptions of cosmology, in language and thought categories that they and their audience could understand. There are no Dinosaurs in the Bible because they didn't exist anymore by the time the Bible was being written. Therefore, it is wrong for us to try to force-fit Dinosaurs into the Bible. We obscure the meaning of the Bible when we take ancient near eastern concepts (like Leviathan and Rahab) make them be what we want them to be rather than trying to understand what they meant to the original writers/audience.

As Rick said, if you want you learn about Dinosaurs, find a book on paleontology written by someone trained in that field whose work has stood up to peer review by others trained in that field. Leave the fake science alone, fake science is in no way God honoring. When it comes to biblical studies, I second the recommendation of John Walton's works, starting with the Lost World of Genesis 1 and the whole Lost World series.

I think a God who has been faithfully ruling and sustaining the universe without a single Higgs boson particle unaccounted for or out of place for the last 14+ Billion years is pretty awesome, and is perfectly compatible with the biblical portrait of God. He is truly the Ancient of Days.

Posts 5248
Dan Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 28 2018 2:00 PM

Well I have no useful recommendation here... I too feel it is an odd request but I can understand the desire. And while I feel like Kiyah I know there are people who have other opinions. I hope that a good resource can be recommended but I also know even a in-depth resource will be small simply  because you might as well ask about a good Christian book on Astronomy the Bible indeed touches on it in a few places but it is not a focus of the Bible.

-dan

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