Biblical People Diagrams

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Joe Mayden | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Aug 22 2018 6:21 AM

I believe in the past when we wanted to see the family tree of someone, Abraham for example, in the context of a Bible passage, right click for drop down menu, select Abraham Person on right side of drop down.  Then it would give you an option to pick, this is where I am a little fuzzy, but I don't think it is working the way it should. You can select Fact Book but this is no  "Biblical People Diagrams".  Your choices are Media, Events, Dictionaries, etc.  

What I mean you have to search the fact book to find the tree.  I don't think it used to be that way.  

Also, when I search the my library, Biblical People Diagrams, does not appear in the listing of interactive resources.  Bible People Visual Timelines appears.

When I list my library, typing in "Biblical People Diagrams", it shows up but the icon, picture of the book, is grayed out.  

Me thinks something is messed up.  Am I thinking right?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2018 6:40 AM

Joe Mayden:

Your choices are Media, Events, Dictionaries, etc.  

What I mean you have to search the fact book to find the tree.  I don't think it used to be that way.  

The family tree is in the media section - it has been that way for a long time.

Joe Mayden:
Also, when I search the my library, Biblical People Diagrams, does not appear in the listing of interactive resources.  Bible People Visual Timelines appears.

Where / how are you searching to get a section on interactive resources?

Joe Mayden:
When I list my library, typing in "Biblical People Diagrams", it shows up but the icon, picture of the book, is grayed out. 

I think this is simply that there is no icon associated with the resource.

Joe Mayden:
Me thinks something is messed up.  Am I thinking right?

I don't see the problem - please clarify further.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Aug 22 2018 5:34 PM

Biblical People along with Places & Things used to be separate features, but they were combined into Bible Facts in Logos 4, and that was expanded to Factbook in Logos 6. The Biblical People Diagrams and Biblical Places Maps were then made available as resources, not Interactives. The Visual Timelines Interactive is a newer feature.

Factbook has been with us for nearly 4 years and it uses Biblical People Diagrams & Biblical Places Maps. They are also used in Media Search.

There have been changes, so nothing is messed up.

Dave
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Posts 42
Andrew Loney | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 2:00 AM

Dave Hooton:
so nothing is messed up.

It may be working as designed, but the older design was better imo for navigating people trees. This is one of the features I consider to have taken a turn for the worse in later versions of Logos. It is not my intention to bash Logos and maybe I'm in a minority, but I hope it's appropriate to provide feedback on what we like and don't like to hopefully guide development.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 2:06 AM

Andrew Loney:
It may be working as designed, but the older design was better imo for navigating people trees.

Please expand a bit on why you think was. Where does the new design fall short?

Andrew Loney:
but I hope it's appropriate to provide feedback on what we like and don't like to hopefully guide development.

Absolutely - but the responses Dave and I made so far were trying to point out that everything is working as currently expected.

Posts 124
Joe Mayden | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 2:50 AM

I appreciate Dave and Graham's responses.  I must have been dreaming when I thought is was different for I have used the tree within the last year.

It does seem to be a easy thing to make Biblical people one of the choices on the left side of the drop down.  Just saying!

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 3:27 AM

Joe Mayden:
It does seem to be a easy thing to make Biblical people one of the choices on the left side of the drop down.  Just saying!

I understand what you are saying - even though I don't know how difficult it would be. It would depend on how the underlying data structures are connected.

But the problem is that others might want to see the biblical events with which Abraham is associated, or other forms of media (such as timelines of his life). And a comment people often make about the context menu is that it is too full of information!

So I think it's a trade off - and at the moment the design view is that having a single entry "Factbook" from which we can explore a range of information is the way to go.

Posts 124
Joe Mayden | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 3:34 AM

Graham, you make a great point about the events.  This does take care of both which is a better solution.

Posts 42
Andrew Loney | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 6:34 AM

Graham Criddle:
Please expand a bit on why you think was. Where does the new design fall short?

Thank you for asking and I will apologize in advance for a lengthy response. I've recently spent some time comparing the current Factbook with the earlier Bible Facts. With Bible Facts, I can navigate from a <person> tag such as Jesus directly to the Bible Facts pane for that person. I am immediately presented with a column of useful information and links to more information on left with (and this is key) the family tree for the person. There are three elements that are important and valuable to me: 1. I can easily see where the person (Jesus) is in relation to other persons. While this capability is almost too obvious to mention, it's important in that it provides me visual context of who a person is by that person's relationships and is often all I need to see. 2. I can click on any of the related person icons to change the focus to that related person (and then easily navigate back using pane history. 3. I can navigate to other family trees (as well as other related images) that contain the person of interest/focus by simply selecting them from a scroll-able list along the bottom of the Bible Facts Person pane. All of the above features work together to allow me to quickly get to know the person and their family relationships (my biggest problem is knowing when to stop following all the rabbit trails this offers Wink)

In comparison; with Factbook, when I navigate from a <person> tag, Factbook opens directly to a pane for that person, but the similarity to Bible Facts very nearly ends there. Factbook has a mostly improved information "column" (in quotes because it now takes up the whole Factbook pane. For the most part, both Factbook and Bible Facts have the same information available, but Factbook organizes it somewhat differently and in some cases provides some additional information. Where Factbook has taken a big step backwards imo, relates to the presentation of family tree information. Factbook has relegated family trees to the Media section whereas Bible Facts dedicates most of the pane to the current family tree; regardless of what sections are opened in the information column. This was clearly done in Factbook to allow other information sections use of that space; which makes sense, but relegating family trees to the Media section broke all three of the features I listed for Bible Facts. 1. I have to first select a media icon for one of the family trees to see the family tree. If I'm not careful, the resulting Biblical People Diagram may open up in a pane somewhere else than the Factbook pane I have open thus requiring more navigation back and forth between the family tree and the person information. In short I have to work harder and open more panes to accomplish the simple task of looking at the family tree for a person. 2. It gets worse when I want to navigate to any of the related persons via their icon in the current family tree. Instead of opening up the Biblical People Diagram for that person as I would expect, Factbook opens for that person. This has several implications; all of which add to the navigational workload to simply navigate a family tree and explore the relationships: A. If I'm not careful how I select a related person from the family tree it will open over the top of the previous Factbook pane, which means I now have to navigate some more if I want to go back to the original person's information. B. Since the related person opened in Factbook, I now have to find the appropriate family tree in its Media section and then open that family tree (again being careful how I do it). C. If I want to go "back up" the tree and explore another branch, I now need to potentially deal with two to four panes and their corresponding pane histories. 3. Unfortunately, Factbook only shows a limited number of items in the Media section and offers a link to Search Media for <person> if you want more, which adds yet another pane (sorry for the pun) to deal with. All this to say that you can still navigate a family tree for a person, but it takes a lot more work.

Similar problems occur for Places and Events in Factbook compared to Bible Facts.

I hope this will be accepted as honest critique and not Logos bashing. There are quite a few very helpful features in Logos 7, but unfortunately there are a fair share of very useful features from previous versions that are no longer as easy to use and less useful. Thanks again for an opportunity to share my perspective.

Posts 42
Andrew Loney | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 6:54 AM

Graham Criddle:
So I think it's a trade off - and at the moment the design view is that having a single entry "Factbook" from which we can explore a range of information is the way to go.

I think a solution that would address most of my concerns without abandoning the design view for Factbook would be to provide a "People Diagram" section in Factbook that displays the current family tree in the main part of the window and a list of other family trees in a column. A choice would need to be made as to whether clicking on a related person icon in the family tree opens to a different Factbook page for the related person or simply navigates to a different family tree. Hmm As I think about it though, you won't want the family tree to navigate away from the person the Factbook page is currently displaying. So, Factbook could open to the new person and keep the focus on the "People Diagram" section. Other images would still be available via the Media section.Smile

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 7:02 AM

Hi Andrew

Thanks for the detailed explanation - it gives me a better understanding of the problem you are seeing.

I recommend you make this suggestion at https://logosdotcom.uservoice.com/ and see if this is something other users vote for.

(I don't particularly use the family trees much so haven't really come across this issue)

That helps Faithlife get an understanding of customer priorities.

Graham

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Aug 23 2018 2:59 PM

Andrew Loney:
I think a solution that would address most of my concerns without abandoning the design view for Factbook would be to provide a "People Diagram" section in Factbook that displays the current family tree in the main part of the window and a list of other family trees in a column. A choice would need to be made as to whether clicking on a related person icon in the family tree opens to a different Factbook page for the related person or simply navigates to a different family tree.

Good idea - I really hadn't noticed how my use of family trees had decreased until you brought the issue up.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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