Non-Denominational or CYOP (Create Your Own Package) Gold packages

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Matt | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Oct 5 2018 7:53 AM

I went through all the packages at the Gold level and it appears that the least valuable one provides you with over $9,000 worth of literature for just over $1,500 actual cost. This is great except for the fact that none of the packages really are what I am after, since I would be looking for very specific books to study with.  My idea is that logos would offer a CYOP or Non-Denominational package that allows us to select up to $8,000 in value (so that way their regular packages would still have more value) and charge the $1,500. They could also limit each category (Like commentaries, etc) to certain amounts within the $8,000 cap (if they are desiring our libraries to be comprehensive or wide ranging). They could specifically do this type of customization for higher level packages like Gold and above. The reason this is very important to me is that I want to make sure the books that I am using as reference are actually in line with what I believe. In my chats with Logos the statement is usually made that the packages offered are of great value and I agree unless you want specific content at which point the packages offered lose their value (value is really determined by what the customer wants) - this is not faulting the Logos team, but maybe can help give clarity to my thoughts. I love the software, so I really want to use Logos, but without this possibility I am stuck looking elsewhere (because my budget doesn't allow for me to purchase $8,000 outside of a package).  Any thoughts?   

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Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 8:20 AM

Hi Matt and welcome to the forums. The responses you'll get here will probably be from other Logos users, although it's possible Faithlife staff will drop by. You'll recognise them by their green Faithlife badge.

Your suggestion is a popular one. Certainly, I personally would love more of a pick-n-mix style of base package. While Faithlife haven't comprehensively said why they don't offer that, it's fairly likely the reasons are:

  1. The publishers of many products in the Logos catalogue aren't willing for their products to be put in base packages at the discounted rates.
  2. One of the attractions of base packages to publishers is that they can shift a lot of backlist titles they otherwise wouldn't sell a lot of. For example, a publisher might want to put in one well-selling commentary set and balance that out with three or four less popular academic monograph series. If we could just pick the commentary set, and then more popular books from other publishers, the publisher has lost royalties on the popular books with nothing in return.

Matt:
The reason this is very important to me is that I want to make sure the books that I am using as reference are actually in line with what I believe.

If that's important to you, you can hide the books that don't match your beliefs (although I personally find it helpful to sometimes read a contrary persepctive).

Matt:
I love the software, so I really want to use Logos, but without this possibility I am stuck looking elsewhere (because my budget doesn't allow for me to purchase $8,000 outside of a package).  Any thoughts?   

Logos 8 is due out later this year, and all the packages are likely to be reconfigured. They'll probably be introductory discounts, too. You may well find some of the L8 packages more in line with what you're looking for. That said, there's always going to be some fluff. The question is whether the good stuff (ignoring the fluff) is worth the money. Personally, I've found that it usually does — although not always, obviously.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 8:31 AM

Welcome to the forums! Smile

Matt:
Any thoughts?

The "value" of books are not all created equal, and I doubt FL would be able to do this. Consider:

  • The John Wesley Collection has value to many people (I have been picking up a free book from this collection each month with my FC membership), but the books themselves are in public domain. FL pays nothing to any author or publisher. It is easier for them to give it away free. This is true for many books in a collection, helping to add to the overall value. 
  • A $20 book by DA Carson will require money to go to the publisher/author, etc. When FL sells you that book, a MUCH smaller percentage actually stays with FL. 
  • Publishers make special deals with FL to bring bundles down in price. If you could pick and choose, the publishers would lose their sales volume benefits found in the packages. 

In other words, there are so many variables that I doubt FL could allow a "pick and choose" method. 

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Matt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 8:33 AM

Thanks for the reply. I agree about studying contrary thoughts and am for that too, but just don't want the library to be 60/40 but rather 80/20 of what I believe. Also, I'd prefer not to hide any or maybe very few of the books if possible, but glad to know the option is available to do so. In the case of the books that don't sell well, maybe if they could make an agreement with publishers to give a list of books that don't sell well and provide several small lists for Custom buyers to choose one of the small lists as part of the "you have to choose a small number of some you don't want in order to get to pick the rest yourself". Make sense?  That way everything is still custom and the publishers have a variety of non selling books start to be bought.

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Matt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 8:39 AM

@JT Hmm. I see what you're saying, it's just too bad for the customer. I guess it'll be interesting to see what the packages are like or if they change when L8 comes out. 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 8:49 AM

I think it's basically been said, but the heavy discounts FL offers in packages are the result of two things: low cost but higher 'retail' value public domain material FL has produced, then put into the packages (artificially inflating the 'retail' value of the package), and good deals publishers have allowed FL to offer. This means that there are a lot of resources FL apparently cannot offer at the package discount.  

So your options are to look elsewhere, to accept resources you don't want in order to get excellent pricing on the ones you do want (which is often what I do), or pay higher prices to own only what you want.

Unfortunately the a la carte method would never allow for the level of discounting we see in packages. We might get a 30-40% discount, but some publishers would probably not even allow that. We'd never get $9,000 or even $8,000 worth of material for $1,500, much as we'd all like that. That's just the reality of what resources cost FL.

IMO the current packages are not very appealing. In the past, FL was able to offer a bit more of interest. Perhaps with the release of L8 the packages will be more appealing. If you can, I'd wait.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 10:01 AM

As already said above, CYOP would be great. 

I bought the Original Languages package many moons ago ... I think about $350 and pretty much was what I wanted. Since then, I take advantage of sales, Christmas credits, and 'library expansion' packs, which are pretty good. So, after my $350, I got a few additional items for about $25k or so (over 12 years). And I've tossed maybe 10 volumes ... not too bad. I kept track of my savings (vs regular Logos price). Latest was about $14k or 35% maybe?

In the absense of CYOP, patient investment.


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Richard Villanueva | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 10:24 AM

Got this email today.  Not a CYOP, but it IS a BYOB (Build Your Own Bundle.)

https://www.logos.com/build-your-own-bundle?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=promo-byobundle18&utm_content=logos_build_your_own_bundle_announcement%20(1)&spMailingID=2169878&spUserID=MjMyMTg5Mjg1S0&spJobID=640162155&spReportId=NjQwMTYyMTU1S0 

Maybe there is hope?

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 10:35 AM

Richard Villanueva:

Got this email today.  Not a CYOP, but it IS a BYOB (Build Your Own Bundle.)

Unfortunately there are few resources offered and no complete sets of commentaries. A bit underwhelming, but some will like it.

A number of years ago, FL had a Christmas-time offer where you submitted a list of resources you wanted and a sales rep. gave you the best price FL could offer on those resources. That's the closest I've seen to a full-catalog custom bundle offering. It had to be a very time-consuming offer for FL personnel to deal with.

I got many resources at excellent prices from this. Interestingly a few years later some of those excellent prices are no long excellent, but I did have use of the resources in the meantime. Perhaps a repeat of this offer is in order? Likely won't happen this year with the probable release of L8, but maybe some other time?

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 4
Matt | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Oct 5 2018 11:03 AM

Thanks for the info Mark and Richard!

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