The Letter to the Romans, Second Edition, D. Moo
I have the full NICOT/NT set and generally speaking, I try to keep up with the updated books that roll out from time to time; most recently Galatians and Romans, but amongst a few others as well.
I do have to ask myself if Romans, at a pre-pub price of $64.99 is worth it. After all, it is a "2nd Edition" and not a complete re-write.
In these updated volumes, they make comments like, "In this thorough revision of his commentary, Moo deals with issues that have come into prominence since the first edition (1996), incorporating the latest research and rewriting the text throughout for better comprehension."
I would really like to know what these issues are concerning. The book of Romans was written 2,000 year ago and all of a sudden we get start getting amazingly smarter in a matter of a decade or two or three about the intent of the Author. I noticed in the updated James or Philemon volume by McKnight a while back, I was essentially paying for Eerdmans to treat social justice warrior (SJW) mentalities. That book was under $20, so it was a no brainer.
Does anybody have a clue what is re-treated in Moo's Romans update?
Wilson Hines
Comments
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I found this article helpful: https://spoiledmilks.com/2018/11/23/review-romans-becnt-schreiner-revised/amp/
The changes seem substantial.
If I were planning to preach/teach Romans in the near future I'd get it, but I'm personally not going to pull the trigger right now.
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Interesting to see how he could change over time in regard to nuance. And we all do that, don't we?
I'm still trying to swallow $65. I think I'm going to return it. It's Christmas and that's strong for right now in with less than a week to go until Christmas and property taxes due in two weeks.
Wilson Hines
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Dave Moser said:
I found this article helpful: https://spoiledmilks.com/2018/11/23/review-romans-becnt-schreiner-revised/amp/
The changes seem substantial.
If I were planning to preach/teach Romans in the near future I'd get it, but I'm personally not going to pull the trigger right now.
Maybe I missed something but I didn't see any references to Moo's commentary in the review of Schreiner's commentary on Romans. Perhaps it's just an improper link. I did find Muehlenberg's review on Amazon helpful, https://www.amazon.com/product-reviews/0802871216/ref=acr_dpproductdetail_text?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=1.
I was also disappointed by the pre-pub price on Logos especially when seeing that the print price at Amazon is $37. However, I still purchased the book as I prefer having them in my Logos library.
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Oops!
I saw a similar article on Moo's commentary, but can't find it now. If my memory serves me well, the updates to Moo's commentary are more substantial than Schreiner's.
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I just figured you were showing how people could revise their opinions over time and thusly want to update their previous work. Nonetheless, it was a good article.
Wilson Hines
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And herein being the introduction by the author to the 2nd edition:
"I am grateful for the opportunity to update this commentary on Romans. Gordon Fee, when he was editing this series, gave me permission to revise the work; and Joel Green, the current editor, has graciously followed suit—even though it means quite a lot of work for him.
"Readers will naturally be anxious to know what kind of changes have been made. I have tried (in vain, I am sure) to include and interact with the many studies of Romans and of Paul that have emerged since the mid-1990s. Those who are familiar with this field of study will know that this is not an inconsiderable amount of literature—indeed, I thought more than once that scholars simply need to stop writing about Paul for a decade or so (present company, of course, excepted!). In an attempt to at least partially offset these additions, I have also omitted some material, relating both to content and bibliography, that appeared in the first edition. My goal when I started was to offset each addition with a comparable subtraction so that the length of the volume would not increase. Alas, I failed, and this volume is a bit longer than the initial edition (though the greater length is also due to the inclusion of a full bibliography, which was not included in the original edition). I carefully worked through the entire text, rearranging material and (I hope!) improving the English style. While many new issues are discussed here, I have changed my mind on relatively few points of exegesis or theology (“old dogs” and all that).
I have many people to thank for their help with this new edition. A series of research assistants at Wheaton College has contributed in many ways: Jared Brown, Ben Dally, Johnathan Harris, Joshua Maurer. Matthew Monkemeier was especially helpful in suggesting edits at a number of places and in helping me think through my view on “the righteousness of God.” Students all over the world to whom I have taught Romans have shaped my understanding through their questions, interactions, and papers."
Moo, Douglas J. The Letter to the Romans. Ed. Ned B. Stonehouse et al. Second Edition. Grand Rapids, MI: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2018. Print. The New International Commentary on the New Testament.Wilson Hines
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Dave Moser said:
Oops!
I saw a similar article on Moo's commentary, but can't find it now. If my memory serves me well, the updates to Moo's commentary are more substantial than Schreiner's.
Thanks Dave, I also read the article and found it helpful for the same reason that Wilson mentioned.
Thanks Wilson for bringing up the new Moo commentary; I had great struggles purchasing it and wasn't finding many opinions on the updated version.
Blessings, Dan
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Talking about "preferring to have it in my library," that seems to be a syndrome. I have that syndrome, but I shouldn't have it. It's also called "Book OCD."
Wilson Hines
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Question:
If one buys the 2nd edition, does it overwrite the 1st edition or does the Logos library now contain both editions?
Potato resting atop 2020 Mac Pro stand.
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No. You will have two volumes.
Wilson Hines
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J. Remington Bowling said:
Question:
If one buys the 2nd edition, does it overwrite the 1st edition or does the Logos library now contain both editions?
One thing I've done is to edit the title to help distinguish between the editions so when it shows up in the passage guide, I can see at a glance which edition I'm selecting. (My brain won't remember if "Epistle" or "Letters" was published first or by which author).
If you don't know how to do this, just open the book and click on the "i" circle.
Then click on the pencil and rename it.
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You know, I should do this with a lot of resources that come up identical in the passage guide. Good tip.
Wilson Hines
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Now I have a serious issue. I can't get his First Edition to even come up in the Passage Guide.
Now, let me explain what I am doing.
1. Murray was the first Romans NICNT volume from 1968 and it's still a standard. I called it the 1st Edition.
2. Moo's 2018 volume is the 2nd Edition (of his volumes) and also the Third Edition of the NICNT volumes.
Wilson Hines
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I don't quite understand the naming conventions you are using - and it is much easier to see if you post directly into the thread using the paperclip icon - but I get all of them to display
I suggest you check Prioritization settings as it is possible the commentary you are missing is lower down the display.
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Sorry about the image, I didn't know about the paperclip trick.
It's not further down, that I could tell. I clicked "More" about a dozen times and came up dry.
The reason for the naming convention is Moo was not the first edition, Murray was the first edition. It's a technical point, but who cares about that. Where's the book LOL
Wilson Hines
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Wilson Hines said:
The reason for the naming convention is Moo was not the first edition, Murray was the first edition. It's a technical point, but who cares about that.
I'm trying to understand which volume you aren't seeing.
Are you getting the 1996 volume or the 2018 volume returned in the Passage Guide?
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I'm not seeing the 2018 volume. In the passage guide it is nowhere to be found, but it is in the Library and I even checked off all the stars to give it some rank.
Wilson Hines
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Wilson Hines said:
In the passage guide it is nowhere to be found, but it is in the Library
Has the software finished indexing?
Wilson Hines said:I even checked off all the stars to give it some rank
This won't affect where it appears in the Passage Guide - that is achieved via prioritization
Try opening a Basic Search window with the 2018 volume also open.
Then click the "All Resources" dropdown and select the 2018 volume instead
Then run the search using the search string - "{Milestone <Rom 5:1>}"
Do you get a "hit" as shown below?
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Graham, I appreciate your help, but I need to get my daughter to a Christmas party. I will be with my laptop once I drop her off at a Starbucks or somewhere, so I'll be back in touch shortly.
Thanks again, it seems as though we were starting to figure things out more. I hope so.
Wilson Hines
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Wilson Hines said:
It did finish indexing. I guess I may have to do a full re-index.
I'm not sure there is a need for that - as the search hit shows that milestones are being correctly identified.
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Wilson Hines said:
Graham, I appreciate your help, but I need to get my daughter to a Christmas party.
Hope she has a good party.
Wilson Hines said:I will be with my laptop once I drop her off at a Starbucks or somewhere, so I'll be back in touch shortly.
It's getting late here - I am in the UK - so may not be able to pick this up until tomorrow but there are other people around who can help
Wilson Hines said:Thanks again, it seems as though we were starting to figure things out more. I hope so.
One thing you may want to try is prioritizing the 2018 edition to the top of the prioritize list (don't leave it there but just for testing) and run the PG again and see if you the commentary appears then
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Wilson Hines said:
While many new issues are discussed here, I have changed my mind on relatively few points of exegesis or theology (“old dogs” and all that).
This was helpful to me to determine whether it is necessary to purchase or not
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So, did you decide to purchase? From the tone, I understood not to purchase was your decision.
Wilson Hines
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Checking the bibliography of the new edition I see Moo refers to:
* 23 commentaries published after his earlier edition was published
* a significant number of other resources - books and articles. I counted 93 written by authors whose surnames start with either A or B
Just thought this was worth sharing!
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Are you saying that for you, Moo's access to these resources has made it worth purchasing, at least for you?
Wilson Hines
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That solved it! Slammed it out the door! Fixed! Thanks Graham. The 2nd Edition was at the bottom of the whole prioritization scheme.Graham Criddle said:One thing you may want to try is prioritizing the 2018 edition to the top of the prioritize list (don't leave it there but just for testing) and run the PG again and see if you the commentary appears then
Wilson Hines
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Graham, now I need to figure out why the recently released JFB Unabridged isn't showing up...even in the Prioritize menu. How do you get it to show up in the menu?
Wilson Hines
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Wilson Hines said:
So, did you decide to purchase? From the tone, I understood not to purchase was your decision.
I decided not to purchase based on what the author wrote about not having changed his views...Others may find his quote helpful and purchase as a result...
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Wilson Hines said:
Are you saying that for you, Moo's access to these resources has made it worth purchasing, at least for you?
I actually decided to purchase simply to get the most recent update.
Romans is a key book to me and I want to be able to have access to the most recent study on it.
I just thought that having a view as to how much new material Moo had engaged with could be useful for some in making a decision.
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Wilson Hines said:
That solved it! Slammed it out the door! Fixed! Thanks Graham. The 2nd Edition was at the bottom of the whole prioritization scheme.
That's great news.
Glad we got that sorted[:)]
It's worth noting that it was probably at the bottom due to a metadata issue that I spotted while looking into this and reported at https://community.logos.com/forums/t/176946.aspx
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Wilson Hines said:
Graham, now I need to figure out why the recently released JFB Unabridged isn't showing up...even in the Prioritize menu. How do you get it to show up in the menu?
Do you mean these resources?
If so I can prioritize them like any other resource.
What are you seeing?
Screenshots may be useful
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Graham Criddle said:Wilson Hines said:
Graham, now I need to figure out why the recently released JFB Unabridged isn't showing up...even in the Prioritize menu. How do you get it to show up in the menu?
Do you mean these resources?
If so I can prioritize them like any other resource.
What are you seeing?
Screenshots may be useful
Yes, sorry it took so long to get back into this. The Christmas Holiday was exorbitantly taxing on time and effort.
I just don't see them as a resource you can prioritize. What do you do to get titles into the prioritization scheme?
Wilson Hines
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Try dragging one of them from the Library to the Prioritize pane
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Graham Criddle said:
Try dragging one of them from the Library to the Prioritize pane
Well, that worked like a charm! Thanks my friend.!
Wilson Hines
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The link Dave Moser placed here was to my blog, but, as you mentioned, I only talk about Schreiner's revision.
Phil Long reviews Moo's commentary here: https://readingacts.com/2019/03/06/book-review-douglas-j-moo-romans-second-edition-nicnt/, and may make some comments about differences.
In Schreiner's Romans class, he said he talked to Moo about his revision. Moo said he didn't substantially change anything, just some nuances here and there and updated his bibliography. I honestly almost don't see the point.
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I didn't purchase the 2nd edition because of the low discount, but now it's under $40 with the sale + DP if you own the full collection. I just ordered.
https://www.logos.com/product/175339/new-international-commentary-on-the-old-and-new-testaments
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Is this another sale that hasn't been promoted? Are there any books other than NIC volumes included in the sale? I can see individual NIC volumes are discounted as well as the sets.
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Paul Caneparo said:
Is this another sale that hasn't been promoted? Are there any books other than NIC volumes included in the sale? I can see individual NIC volumes are discounted as well as the sets.
It just launched this morning messaging should be going out soon to make everyone aware.
https://www.logos.com/nic-sale0 -
Kaleb Cuevas said:Paul Caneparo said:
Is this another sale that hasn't been promoted? Are there any books other than NIC volumes included in the sale? I can see individual NIC volumes are discounted as well as the sets.
It just launched this morning messaging should be going out soon to make everyone aware.
https://www.logos.com/nic-saleThanks Kaleb
Some recent sales seem to have been kept under the radar - especially featuring Zondervan. Keep the sales coming!
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Spencer Robinson said:
The link Dave Moser placed here was to my blog, but, as you mentioned, I only talk about Schreiner's revision.
Phil Long reviews Moo's commentary here: https://readingacts.com/2019/03/06/book-review-douglas-j-moo-romans-second-edition-nicnt/, and may make some comments about differences.
In Schreiner's Romans class, he said he talked to Moo about his revision. Moo said he didn't substantially change anything, just some nuances here and there and updated his bibliography. I honestly almost don't see the point.
I was wondering how much it was revised? Schreiner just answered my question! Thanks for posting! $39 is a good price, but if it’s virtually the same content, then I can skip it and use the money for something else.
DAL
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Kaleb Cuevas said:
It just launched this morning messaging should be going out soon to make everyone aware.
https://www.logos.com/nic-saleThe sale price ($29.99) is not showing for me (?)
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Just buy the whole set and with dynamic pricing it is cheaper if you own most of the volumes
Keith Pang, PhD Check out my blog @ https://keithkpang.wixsite.com/magnifyingjesus
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Mike Tourangeau said:Kaleb Cuevas said:
It just launched this morning messaging should be going out soon to make everyone aware.
https://www.logos.com/nic-saleThe sale price ($29.99) is not showing for me (?)
* Excludes volumes on Romans and Galatians
Everything else should be $29.99 or less.
After you purchase everything besides Romans and Galatians, you can purchase the entire collection and your DP will be much cheaper. More than $29.99, but less than $40 for Romans. Not sure how much Galatians would be.
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$ 62.69 for both Romans & Galatians. Not a bad deal...
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How come the Romans Volume is $69 on its own, but $39 as part of the set? Shouldn’t it be $29.99 as advertised?
DAL
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DAL said:
How come the Romans Volume is $69 on its own, but $39 as part of the set? Shouldn’t it be $29.99 as advertised?
As per Dale's post above, the volumes on Romans and Galatians don't qualify for the sale price.
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Graham Criddle said:DAL said:
How come the Romans Volume is $69 on its own, but $39 as part of the set? Shouldn’t it be $29.99 as advertised?
As per Dale's post above, the volumes on Romans and Galatians don't qualify for the sale price.
Thanks I didn’t see the post above 👍😁👌
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If you're thinking it's not worth buying Moo or Schreiner's revisions, but want an up to date Romans commentary written at a similar level, this commentary in the ZECNT series ships on the 26th April, so there's not long to buy it at pre-pub price:
https://www.logos.com/product/168350/zondervan-exegetical-commentary-on-the-new-testament-romans
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Paul Caneparo said:
If you're thinking it's not worth buying Moo or Schreiner's revisions, but want an up to date Romans commentary written at a similar level, this commentary in the ZECNT series ships on the 26th April, so there's not long to buy it at pre-pub price:
https://www.logos.com/product/168350/zondervan-exegetical-commentary-on-the-new-testament-romans
I’m good with what I have. I used that money to buy 19 volumes of the Discovering Christ Series by Don Fortner (Some of those volumes are still in prepub in Logos). I got them all plus 6 new volumes by another Don but last name Cantrell. This was with the competition, so I won’t name them this time.
DAL
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