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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Mar 14 2019 7:18 PM

I got asked to fill a survey from a competitor of Logos which gather information about a subscription service much like Faithlife Connect (they asked about price point, kinds of materials such as commentary, devotional, etc.)

Posts 43
Darrell Tan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 14 2019 11:12 PM

Me too. But subscriptions (esp. in USD) don't work for me.

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 15 2019 5:03 AM

Darrell Tan:

Me too. But subscriptions (esp. in USD) don't work for me.

Why? Are you referring to the penalty in exchange rate when they charge in USD and the VISA exchange at a poor rate?

What I hope is they can revolutionized subscriptions here given the competition is entering the space.

Eg like Adobe CC where $50 per month includes everything. I think it is a right price point as a consumer to accept if I paid $50 per month, I can access everything in Logos' catalog. Such model (all inclusive) works also for music, but not for movie and TV. I wish some day it will work for Logos.

Posts 1246
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 15 2019 5:31 AM

Instead of a survey I would have liked to receive some information about why this competitor's Bible app is currently unavailable in the app stores (outside the USA). 

I generally do not like the subscription model, but if I would ever subscribe I would choose Faithlife.  

Posts 666
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 15 2019 6:22 AM

HJ. van der Wal:

Instead of a survey I would have liked to receive some information about why this competitor's Bible app is currently unavailable in the app stores (outside the USA).

I sent them a Facebook message yesterday - they said it's not available in Europe currently. They didn't say why, but my guess is that it's to do with GDPR - but they say that they're planning to bring it back "as soon as possible" - are you in Europe as well? In any case, I much prefer Logos and I'm so disappointed with the lack of communication that I don't see myself using their app again.

Posts 7978
LogosEmployee

HJ. van der Wal:
why this competitor's Bible app is currently unavailable in the app stores (outside the USA)

I don't know which competitor you're referring to, but if it's this one, they have a support article explaining why: https://help.olivetree.com/hc/en-us/articles/360018081272-App-unavailable-in-European-app-stores- 

Posts 666
James McAdams | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 15 2019 7:08 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

They did announce it! I spent forever looking for a post like this! Googled it every way I could think of, looked at Facebook pages, tweeted them without replies... I'd given up on it till yesterday.

Posts 38
Robert S Stramski | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 15 2019 7:59 AM

They are thinking about offering EVERYTHING they have for $50 a month????? That seems impossible because of licensing fees.

Robert

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 15 2019 2:52 PM

Robert S Stramski:

They are thinking about offering EVERYTHING they have for $50 a month????? That seems impossible because of licensing fees.

Robert

Sorry I confused you. No, they asked about price point and kinds of resources, etc.

I was merely my naive imagination that someday Logos could offer $50/month for everything. But I quoted 2 other cases that it might not be entirely impossible. I think it is about if Logos can convince them such a program would make the publisher more, not less, money (in the case of Adobe software and Music subscriptions industry, this is true. But the situation in a Bible resource subscription is more complicated.)

Posts 1246
HJ. van der Wal | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 15 2019 2:58 PM

James McAdams:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):

They did announce it! I spent forever looking for a post like this! Googled it every way I could think of, looked at Facebook pages, tweeted them without replies... I'd given up on it till yesterday.

Thanks Bradley!

Posts 2695
Kevin A. Purcell | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 2:21 PM

FYI the competitor is Olive Tree

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 2:28 PM

Why would anyone want to mention a competitor‘s name explicitly, which is against the forum guidelines? But then since it is a Faithlife staff who first revealed that name that’s no harm done.

FYI it is very difficult to understand what can or cannot be mentioned in the forum because the guidelines are not useful. Sometimes it is ok to break, other times people would accuse you, and times that people complain even if it’s nothing against the guidelines.

Even worse this leads to some “volunteers“ trying to police around, and obviously it won’t be effective for the reasons above.

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Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 4:25 PM

Kolen Cheung:
Why would anyone want to mention a competitor‘s name explicitly, which is against the forum guidelines? But then since it is a Faithlife staff who first revealed that name that’s no harm done.

There's no problem with mentioning competitors. What's not allowed is promoting or linking to competitors.

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 6:27 PM

In this case mentioning is promoting (read the title.)

Not promoting would be to say that company X do not offer subscription service, has no plan to, etc.

But if one say company Y is going to provide something to compete to Logos/Faithlife in some way, then mentioning it is promoting their future service, luring people away from Logos.

Consider a certain person stumble upon this thread, if he knew that competitor he would have already knew, if he doesn't know, and none of the replies mentioned it, then he wouldn't be starting to interest in and comparing Logos' offering to competitor Y's.

See https://community.logos.com/forums/p/11504/90368.aspx#90368 for an example of naming a competitor explicitly, although the intention of that thread is not promoting competitor but suggesting Logos to provide a certain product offered by competitor Z. If one read through the thread, they will see that some people also question if the competitor really can't be named. So the whole problem is really that the forum guidelines are not enforceable due to its ambiguity and generosity.

All is well if no one is policing around, but there's always some people like to volunteer themselves into forum police and arguments started because of that (above thread is also an example of this.)

Just make sure I don't get anyone wrong, I have no problem with the person naming a competitor, I can't care less. What I'm showing is the frustration of the non-uniform standard/culture about what's considered to within guidelines or not. And yes it means I'm hijacking my own thread, where hijacking is not banned at all by the forum guidelines.

Posts 43
Darrell Tan | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 6:49 PM

Kolen Cheung: I'm in Asia, so it is relatively less affordable due to exchange rate, let alone the overhead card charges.

Posts 9075
Forum MVP
Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 8:03 PM

Kolen Cheung:
If one read through the thread, they will see that some people also question if the competitor really can't be named.

I think Terry (if that is who you are referring to) was speaking as we say, ’tongue in cheek’. I don’t think he was serious, in other words. I wouldn’t call his post policing. If one’s native language is not English, it would be easy to misunderstand his attempt at humor.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 9:20 PM

I wasn't offended in that thread, but clearly someone below (in that thread) does, which is the point...

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 10:56 PM

Darrell Tan:

Kolen Cheung: I'm in Asia, so it is relatively less affordable due to exchange rate, let alone the overhead card charges.

Exchange rate is just converting one currency to another. Do you mean local, physical books are sold cheaper than in the U.S. according to local economy?

I'm not sure if your country has this kind of credit card—in the U.S. there's certain kind of "travel" Visa card that has generous exchange rate (i.e. better than exchange at bank and no transaction fee.)

But I think in general charging in USD can be a problem for Logos to enter international markets. I used to use my HK credit card to buy Logos resources and they charged USD from my card and they impose additional transaction fee and worse exchange rate. (On the flip side people mentioned many Faithlife ebook is not available internationally so it might be a good thing that at least for Logos resources people can be charged in USD to buy them. May be the 2 has something to do with each other.)

I also heard that there's an Netflix equivalent in India which is very cheap. So may be that's what you're referring to, that subscription fee isn't as expensive as in the U.S. there.

I also don't like subscriptions. If something happened, you can lose everything (under subscriptions.) But in that case one still got to keep what they already bought (or even sell them at loss in financial crisis.) Subscriptions stabilize companies (their future is financially more secured) but customers' future is getting less secured. However, in the case of something like Music subscription, it is financially infeasible for one to have access to such a huge library (almost the whole catalog, 50 million songs.) But for subscription one get to access all of them. So this is my hope that a certain subscription tier can exist for one to access the (almost) whole catalog in Logos.

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Forum MVP
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 21 2019 11:55 PM

Kolen Cheung:
See https://community.logos.com/forums/p/11504/90368.aspx#90368 for an example of naming a competitor explicitly, although the intention of that thread is not promoting competitor but suggesting Logos to provide a certain product offered by competitor Z. If one read through the thread, they will see that some people also question if the competitor really can't be named. So the whole problem is really that the forum guidelines are not enforceable due to its ambiguity and generosity.

Terry explicitly says he "made the rule up".

There is no ambiguity about whether you can mention competitors if it's relevant to Logos.

Posts 880
Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Mar 22 2019 2:13 AM

Mark Barnes:

Kolen Cheung:
See https://community.logos.com/forums/p/11504/90368.aspx#90368 for an example of naming a competitor explicitly, although the intention of that thread is not promoting competitor but suggesting Logos to provide a certain product offered by competitor Z. If one read through the thread, they will see that some people also question if the competitor really can't be named. So the whole problem is really that the forum guidelines are not enforceable due to its ambiguity and generosity.

Terry explicitly says he "made the rule up".

There is no ambiguity about whether you can mention competitors if it's relevant to Logos.

Too bad they didn't put it in the guidelines itself. That's another problem of Logos/Faithlife—information buried in different posts. They should have more sticky post like the guidelines, and put more stuffs into the wiki making it a centralized place to host and find information.

And that post is definitely too long to read. Anyway, from my interpretation of the simple wordings of the guidelines, mentioning the name of the competitor in this case is definitely promoting its coming subscription service which competes with Faithlife/Logos.

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