Is there a chance that Timothy was the product of rape? - someone with more cultural knowledge could share insight perhaps

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Posts 13
John Jennings | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Mar 19 2019 5:05 PM

Hi

I don't want to sound crass with this question.  

My wife is presenting on mother's day and couldn't understand why Eunice as at least a second generation Jew would have a child with a non Jew.

Which led me to some study on this with her and I've learned that.

1.  Gentle soldiers could/would rape Jewish women. 

2.  He was raised in scriptures from young age. 

3.  Minimum Second generation Jewish mother. (Not to marry or have child with Greek/non Jew)

4.  His name means dear to God. (No input from father).

5.  Not circumcised - shame? 

Again I don't have much understanding of Jewish culture but cant understand why his father would not allow him to be circumcised.  But would have no say or influence in naming Timothy or his learning of scriptures. 

If anyone can shed light would appreciate it

Thanks

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 6:19 PM

Of course there's a chance ... as with all women. But usually there needs to be a victim.

1. Jews had multiple beliefs ... not just what you found.

2. Some groups didn't demand circumcision for converts, as well as prohibitions in the diaspora.

3. A famous jewish woman was married to the gentile leader who was fine with Jesus' death.

The list goes on.

But basically there's no 'jewish culture' then or now. A whole lot of variation. It's not even clear in Palestine, just what most jews believed ... no opinion polls. The text presents what the text presents.

Now, Bathsheba ... there you'd have a discussion.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 13
John Jennings | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Mar 19 2019 11:35 PM

Thanks for reply.  Seems it would be a stretch then to say the least

Posts 13423
Mark Barnes | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 20 2019 1:37 AM

Rather than hypothesising, I'd suggest searching your Logos library for references to intermarriage NEAR Gentile.

The Dictionary of New Testament Background has the following:

Even if the tradition connected to Ezra and Nehemiah shapes one perception of how Jews should relate to the ancient Gentile world, not all followed that path of curbing social contact. Jews regularly and consistently intermarried with women of other nations and religions.

Remember that marriage was often arranged. It's more than possible that despite Lois' faith, Eunice's marriage to a Gentile was arranged by her father.

But as Denise says, even though the Rabbis condemned intermarriage, we can't assume that every Jew lived consistently with their law.

Posts 3771
Francis | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 20 2019 6:10 AM

Just a little correction however: the problem is more whether a devout Jewish woman would marry with a Gentile. Even in the OT, Israelites were allowed to take captive women as wives. However, a Jewish woman normally needed the approval of her father to marry. It is less likely -- I would think but do not know as fact -- that a Jewish father would arrange a marriage of his daughter with an "uncircumcised." 

The absence of the father in Paul's comments is indeed intriguing and certainly no credit is given to him for Timothy's faith. So it is indeed curious since both the grandmother and mother were women of faith (2 Tim 1:5). The examples that Denise and Mark allude to apply more to people whose faith was not so well reputed.

One notes also that likewise, something is said of the grandmother's but not the grandfather's faith. Either the grandmother or mother could also have been a slave who was impregnanted by her Gentile master. It is worth noting that whatever his background, Timothy himself had good reputation locally and this is likely to have applied to his mother and grandmother as well. At least some if not most of the brethren were probably Jews (Acts 16:1-3).

The basic search "Timothy WITHIN 10 WORDS father" produced relevant results from my resources. There are also interesting discussions under "Eunice" in dictionaries (check Factbook).

Posts 8648
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 20 2019 6:50 AM

Did Adam have a bellybutton? 😜

DAL

Posts 11433
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 20 2019 6:56 AM

Francis:

Just a little correction however: the problem is more whether a devout Jewish woman would marry with a Gentile. Even in the OT, Israelites were allowed to take captive women as wives. However, a Jewish woman normally needed the approval of her father to marry. It is less likely -- I would think but do not know as fact -- that a Jewish father would arrange a marriage of his daughter with an "uncircumcised." 

Francis, normally your logic is tighter. 

1. You don't know what 'devout' meant in the 1st century. Was Jesus 'devout'? In the various birth stories, Jesus' parents do various 'devout' things. Which could as easily be 'what they did at the time'. 

2. Where did you get a 'a jewish woman normally ....'. Goodness.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

Posts 13
John Jennings | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 20 2019 7:03 AM

DAL.  

While we are hyposthising I do feel it's an interesting discussion.   

Not least for young men identity issues and abortion etc.

I appreciate what Francis posted as it seems to make sense as do the other accounts.

I know you're having a laugh and I love that more than most lol 

It's just the affirmation I see Paul pouring into Timothy and calling him son several times which makes me think was Timothy a bastard?

Thanks

Darren 

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