Church Capstone Project - Logos User Group

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Posts 11
Nancy | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jun 15 2010 8:50 AM

I've searched the forums, but wasn't sure where to find this topic.  Sorry if I'm duplicating a conversation.

I am not a seminary student, but I have been taking  a series of classes at my church for the last 6 years. I have started to use Logos 4 to help me with my homework.   Recently they changed the adult education program and  added a capstone project as a final requirement for "graduation."   Many of the ideas for the capstone include teaching a youth class (already done that), community service projects (done lots of those), mission trips (done some) or presenting an idea for a capstone.

So I presented the idea of starting and facilitating a Logos User Group or Mini-Church using Logos 4 as a tool for a Bible Study starting in 2011.   I am still a new user to Logos, but I have a Graduate Degree in Online Learning.  This would be a challenging  and exciting capstone project for me.  My church has about 3500+ people who attend, so I thought that there must be at least a couple of people who might be interested in using technology to study God's Word.

After briefly sharing my idea during a phone conversation, the response was respectful and cautious, but certainly not enthusiastic.  I was going to type up a detailed proposal, but have stopped to ponder for awhile and try to understand the churches position.  The church utilizes technology very well for worship and communication, but PowerPoint and talking head videos are the only technologies I have experienced with the adult education program.

I'm ready to sign up for the Parking Lot Greeting crew (never done that)  for my capstone project... and continue to do Logos on my own.   Any insights would be appreciated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 9:05 AM

Could you explain what "capstone project" denotes?  It may be well known in some circles, but is unfamiliar to me.

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

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J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 9:09 AM

HI Nancy, 

Depending on where you live, one of our regional reps could come in and do a presentation to your church group.  I currently live in the Seattle area (next month I will be moving to Southern California).  If you email me, I can help connect you with the right person in your area.

joe.miller [at] logos.com 

Blessings,

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 11
Nancy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 9:38 AM

George Somsel:

Could you explain what "capstone project" denotes?  It may be well known in some circles, but is unfamiliar to me.

Thanks for your response.   It's a good question, because I'm not so sure anymore in regards to my church.  A capstone project is usually thought of as the FINAL project or internship before college or high school graduation.  It's designed to pull together (or cap) many of the things learned in the education program.   

Becoming a Logos user was a result of wanting to use technology to help me learn God's Word in a new way.  I reviewed the Logos software and other programs  too for a long time before I purchased Logos 4.   Since I enjoy technology, this made sense to me.  I can apply every course that I have learned in the program utilizing Logos.  

God willing, the capstone project should take me to another level of learning and thinking.  I am okay with not doing it as well.

 

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 9:41 AM

Nancy:
I'm ready to sign up for the Parking Lot Greeting crew

I did that one for a while. Don't underestimate the importance of the Greeters ministry.Yes

I may not completely grasp wjat you mean by "mini-church" but if your pastor thought it was being offered as a replacment for regular church I can see why he may reserve his enthusiasim. Logos should not become a replacement for church but a complementary aid to enriching one's walk with and service to God.

I find a Logos User Group a wonderful idea and have only one caution if you proceed. There is a possibility of a "have, have-not" ("us & them") distinction emerging. In my church, families have to be sensitive to different schooling choices. The homeschoolers, public schoolers, and private schoolers are aware of the emotions stirred if the "us & them" attitudes are not kept in check.

I think it would be wonderful if you can utilize your education to develop something like this. (Do remember the EULA  and avoid network access to Logos, unless Bob offers some kind of site license in the future.)

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 9:48 AM

George Somsel:
Could you explain what "capstone project" denotes? 

 

In lieu of a thesis or dissertation, a capstone project is a hands-on demonstration of the culmination of one's studies. It is a practical demonstration of proficiency. I think it is a much better gauge of successful learning than the oral exam by a panel of one's professors.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

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George Somsel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 10:20 AM

Matthew C Jones:

Nancy:
I'm ready to sign up for the Parking Lot Greeting crew

I did that one for a while. Don't underestimate the importance of the Greeters ministry.Yes

We usually wait until they set foot inside the church before we "put the arm on them."  Wink  This gives new meaning to the passage "Go out to the highways and byways and COMPEL THEM TO COME IN."  [Sorry about the quote from the AV, but I did grow up with it].

george
gfsomsel

יְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן

Posts 11
Nancy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 10:22 AM

Matthew C Jones:
I did that one for a while. Don't underestimate the importance of the Greeters ministry.Yes

Yep, I agree.  Greeting people as they are driving into the parking is an important ministry and was on my list of things to do. I have done some security work in the past, so I do have experience in this area. It would be an easy way for me to satisfy the capstone, but I'm it would not challenge me.

A mini-church is a gathering of about 8 - 10 like-minded folks in similar situations to study God's Word.  For example, a new parents group.   Usually the churches have a starting and stopping time, which allows people to move on to another mini-church or re-join.  The facilitator (s) choose the content and it is reviewed by a church leader. 

 I spend a lot of time observing young adults and the first thing they do after the service is whip out their i--pads, ipods and cell phones to connect up.  My guess is the last thing they "connect up" to is God.  Yes, technology does present a "digital divide" by separating those who have the money to purchase and those who don't.    I'm not sure how to solve that problem.   

But for right now, I have to believe there are a handful of people who want to get their hands on some good technology and can afford to do so.  My idea for a user group (or mini-church)  was to begin a 6 - 10 person group (high school & above)  with those who enjoy technology and want to use the Logos software platform.  The group would meet in person and online. 

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

 

 

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 10:33 AM

Nancy:
After briefly sharing my idea during a phone conversation, the response was respectful and cautious, but certainly not enthusiastic.  I was going to type up a detailed proposal, but have stopped to ponder for awhile and try to understand the churches position.  The church utilizes technology very well for worship and communication, but PowerPoint and talking head videos are the only technologies I have experienced with the adult education program.

Personally, I'd make the assumption that the hesitation is due to not having a good grasp of what you are proposing and/or not knowing anything about Logos.  I'd go ahead with your detailed proposal to hopefully fill in the gaps for them.  The worst they could do is say no, but I don't see too many good reasons for any church to say that about wanting to start a Logos user group.

Posts 11
Nancy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 11:07 AM

Thanks Ron for the note.

The less than enthusiastic response was "Let me know if you have any other ideas."   I wasn't sure how to interpret the comment which is why I am slow to write a detailed proposal.   I respect the Adult Education Program and the leaders very much, but the Capstone response was discouraging.     I do believe the ministry staff has access to Logos and it is not a new product to them.  Perhaps they have never seen it as a tool for lay people.

I'm collecting ideas right now because if I do present a proposal, I would like it to be well thought out and not appear appear to be a marketing event. Any ideas on a proposal would be welcome.  My goal is to do something in 2011, so I am not trying to throw something together at the last moment.   I recommended a church blog about 6 years ago, but the idea was dismissed very quickly.  Last month they posted their first church blog and started a facebook account, which was cool.

 

 

 

 

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 11:27 AM

Nancy,

Do you know anyone else in the church using Logos besides the staff? Since you have some time before the proposal is due, you might see if you can get a few of them together and discuss how they use Logos, their needs in that regard and whether they'd find a user group would interest them. Maybe just a note on a bulletin board (if you have those and can use them) "Using Logos Bible Software? Let's talk." Then give a way to contact. Run it by the staff to see if they're OK with this.

If you can find a way to get some interest going, you can make a stronger presentation of your idea.

Pastor, North Park Baptist Church

Bridgeport, CT USA

Posts 3883
Floyd Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 11:39 AM

Nancy -

Can the capstone project be outside the church?  There are a number of regional LOGOS groups - I would love to find a group in my local area (upstate NY), but know of none.  It would provide a larger audience in which to share your understanding and experience with LOGOS.

Blessings,
Floyd

Pastor-Patrick.blogspot.com

Posts 1228
Ron | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 1:39 PM

Nancy:

Thanks Ron for the note.

The less than enthusiastic response was "Let me know if you have any other ideas."   I wasn't sure how to interpret the comment which is why I am slow to write a detailed proposal.   I respect the Adult Education Program and the leaders very much, but the Capstone response was discouraging.     I do believe the ministry staff has access to Logos and it is not a new product to them.  Perhaps they have never seen it as a tool for lay people.

I'm not sure how I'd interpret that kind of response either...especially if you believe that they are familiar with the product.  How unfortunate.

I do like Mark's suggestion to try to find other people in the church who are already using it so that you can make a stronger case (that it is a useful tool for laypeople and there is an interest).

Posts 77
Geneva Smith Krag | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 2:03 PM

A Logos User Group can be very useful and effective. I would urge you to pursue it.

One difficulty I experienced was in not getting more folks from our church to participate. The program is so very expensive for most folks!

I want to read about your ongoing success with the class. Please post to keep the forum readers (like me!) updated on your decisions, plans, experience, and results.

Posts 11
Nancy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 2:15 PM

Mark A. Smith:
Maybe just a note on a bulletin board (if you have those and can use them) "Using Logos Bible Software? Let's talk."

Thanks Mark.  Bulletin boards and suggestions box are not utilized at the church.  (I suggested a suggestion box/ database system  a couple of years back and it was turned down).   

but I did take your bulletin board suggestion and posted something on my Facebook, so I will see what happens.  Thanks.

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Matthew C Jones | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 2:20 PM

Ron Keyston Jr:

I'm not sure how I'd interpret that kind of response either...especially if you believe that they are familiar with the product.  How unfortunate.

Yeah, it doesn't sound very happy , does it? I would much prefer an in-church project to help my fellow church members. But if Ron & Mark are misjudging the reason you receieved a lackluster resonse, a "stronger case" may come across as threatening or even a rebellion with that crowd of people standing with you. My brother is a pastor of a church in St. Louis. They have "small groups" that sound like your use of "Mini-Church." They have oversight of each small group with the blessing and direction of the church leadership. Churches that do not have such oversight and trust frequently view small groups as possible problems to be restrained. I hope that is not the case here.

A more detailed proposal with a bit of patience might be neccessary. The beneffits are worth the effort.

"It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit." - sign on Ronald Reagan's desk.

Logos 7 Collectors Edition

Posts 2793
J.R. Miller | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 2:23 PM

Niels Krag:
One difficulty I experienced was in not getting more folks from our church to participate. The program is so very expensive for most folks!
If you have one of our regional ministry folks come in to do a presentation to a group, we can work with you on this.  You can always email me, my email is above in a reply to Nancy, or you can call the office 1800-87-LOGOS and ask for Rebekah Richoux in Ministry Development.  She can see about booking someone to come in to your church or potential user group.

Blessings

My Books in Logos & FREE Training

Posts 11
Nancy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 2:34 PM

Niels Krag:
The program is so very expensive for most folks!

Thanks Niels.  Yes, I agree that the software is expensive, however it is a relative thing.  Microsoft Office is expensive too.  I have one of the oldest cars in the parking lot and our family has gone through the unemployment blues this past year, but it still didn't stop me from purchasing the Logos 4 product.   It was not an impulsive purchase either.  I waited two years to buy it and was fortunate to finally be able to afford it when Logos 4 was announced.

When I watch how many $$ are spent on gaming software, I have to believe that there is some additional income for learning software.  The church youth group has a couple of gaming machines for their entertainment area.  They justify that it is okay because it was donated.  It makes me wonder if education programs are victims of donations verses design.  (i.e. we give out lots of candy in the youth area because it was donated).   Oh...I keep my mouth shut most of the time.

Posts 11
Nancy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 2:44 PM

Thanks for the idea.  The capstone project can be a community project as well, which would mean that I could include anyone who is interested.   The challenge is to get the blessing for the project so I can "graduate" from the program.  Otherwise, I'm better off just waving hello to people in the parking lot and not upsetting the apple cart.

Posts 11
Nancy | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jun 15 2010 3:12 PM

Matthew C Jones:
They have "small groups" that sound like your use of "Mini-Church." They have oversight of each small group with the blessing and direction of the church leadership.

Matthew, thanks for your thoughts.  Yes, the church does have oversight of the small groups, gives blessings and manages them very well.  Accountability is very strong.  There is some resistance in the church to female leadership (except in the woman's and youth ministries.)  But I don't think gender is the problem for my capstone idea.

"Re-thinking" technology does not seem to be a part of the education plan at the church.  Classes are brick and mortar lectures, with online access to an mp3 if you miss the class. (that is the online program).   Online access is not available at the church without special permission.  I often hear rhetorical questions from the pastors questioning why more people (in a church of 3500) don't attend adult ed classes.   Usually I am the only one who brings a computer to class and asks for special permission to gain Internet access.  Lately it has been such a hassle that I leave the computer at home.

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