Church Capstone Project - Logos User Group

Could you explain what "capstone project" denotes? It may be well known in some circles, but is unfamiliar to me.

J.R. Miller

HI Nancy,

Depending on where you live, one of our regional reps could come in and do a presentation to your church group. I currently live in the Seattle area (next month I will be moving to Southern California). If you email me, I can help connect you with the right person in your area.

joe.miller [at] logos.com

Blessings,

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138824#Comment_138824

Could you explain what "capstone
project" denotes? It may be well known in some circles, but is
unfamiliar to me.

Thanks for your response. It's a good question, because I'm not so sure anymore in regards to my
church. A capstone project is usually thought of as the FINAL project or internship before college or high school graduation. It's designed to pull together (or cap) many of the things learned in the education program.

Becoming a Logos user was a result of wanting to use technology to help me learn God's Word in a new way. I reviewed the Logos software and other programs too for a long time before I purchased Logos 4. Since I enjoy technology, this made sense to me. I can apply every course that I have learned in the program utilizing Logos.

God willing, the capstone project should take me to another level of learning and thinking. I am okay with not doing it as well.

I'm ready to sign up for the Parking Lot Greeting crew

I did that one for a while. Don't underestimate the importance of the Greeters ministry.[Y]

I may not completely grasp wjat you mean by "mini-church" but if your pastor thought it was being offered as a replacment for regular church I can see why he may reserve his enthusiasim. Logos should not become a replacement for church but a complementary aid to enriching one's walk with and service to God.

I find a Logos User Group a wonderful idea and have only one caution if you proceed. There is a possibility of a "have, have-not" ("us & them") distinction emerging. In my church, families have to be sensitive to different schooling choices. The homeschoolers, public schoolers, and private schoolers are aware of the emotions stirred if the "us & them" attitudes are not kept in check.

I think it would be wonderful if you can utilize your education to develop something like this. (Do remember the EULA and avoid network access to Logos, unless Bob offers some kind of site license in the future.)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138824#Comment_138824

Could you explain what "capstone project" denotes?

In lieu of a thesis or dissertation, a capstone project is a hands-on demonstration of the culmination of one's studies. It is a practical demonstration of proficiency. I think it is a much better gauge of successful learning than the oral exam by a panel of one's professors.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138835#Comment_138835

I'm ready to sign up for the Parking Lot Greeting crew

I did that one for a while. Don't underestimate the importance of the Greeters ministry.

We usually wait until they set foot inside the church before we "put the arm on them." [;)] This gives new meaning to the passage "Go out to the highways and byways and COMPEL THEM TO COME IN." [Sorry about the quote from the AV, but I did grow up with it].

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138835#Comment_138835

I did that one for a while. Don't underestimate the importance of the Greeters ministry.

Yep, I agree. Greeting people as they are driving into the parking is an important ministry and was on my list of things to do. I have done some security work in the past, so I do have experience in this area. It would be an easy way for me to satisfy the capstone, but I'm it would not challenge me.

A mini-church is a gathering of about 8 - 10 like-minded folks in similar situations to study God's Word. For example, a new parents group. Usually the churches have a starting and stopping time, which allows people to move on to another mini-church or re-join. The facilitator (s) choose the content and it is reviewed by a church leader.

I spend a lot of time observing young adults and the first thing they do after the service is whip out their i--pads, ipods and cell phones to connect up. My guess is the last thing they "connect up" to is God. Yes, technology does present a "digital divide" by separating those who have the money to purchase and those who don't. I'm not sure how to solve that problem.

But for right now, I have to believe there are a handful of people who want to get their hands on some good technology and can afford to do so. My idea for a user group (or mini-church) was to begin a 6 - 10 person group (high school & above) with those who enjoy technology and want to use the Logos software
platform. The group would meet in person and online.

Thanks for your thoughts.

Ron

After briefly sharing my idea during a phone conversation, the response was respectful and cautious, but certainly not enthusiastic. I was going to type up a detailed proposal, but have stopped to ponder for awhile and try to understand the churches position. The church utilizes technology very well for worship and communication, but PowerPoint and talking head videos are the only technologies I have experienced with the adult education program.

Personally, I'd make the assumption that the hesitation is due to not having a good grasp of what you are proposing and/or not knowing anything about Logos. I'd go ahead with your detailed proposal to hopefully fill in the gaps for them. The worst they could do is say no, but I don't see too many good reasons for any church to say that about wanting to start a Logos user group.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138856#Comment_138856

Thanks Ron for the note.

The less than enthusiastic response was "Let me know if you have any other ideas." I wasn't sure how to interpret the comment which is why I am slow to write a detailed proposal. I respect the Adult Education Program and the leaders very much, but the Capstone response was discouraging. I do believe the ministry staff has access to Logos and it is not a new product to them. Perhaps they have never seen it as a tool for lay people.

I'm collecting ideas right now because if I do present a proposal, I would like it to be well thought out and not appear appear to be a marketing event. Any ideas on a proposal would be welcome. My goal is to do something in 2011, so I am not trying to throw something together at the last moment. I recommended a church blog about 6 years ago, but the idea was dismissed very quickly. Last month they posted their first church blog and started a facebook account, which was cool.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138864#Comment_138864

Nancy,

Do you know anyone else in the church using Logos besides the staff? Since you have some time before the proposal is due, you might see if you can get a few of them together and discuss how they use Logos, their needs in that regard and whether they'd find a user group would interest them. Maybe just a note on a bulletin board (if you have those and can use them) "Using Logos Bible Software? Let's talk." Then give a way to contact. Run it by the staff to see if they're OK with this.

If you can find a way to get some interest going, you can make a stronger presentation of your idea.

Floyd Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138870#Comment_138870

Nancy -

Can the capstone project be outside the church? There are a number of regional LOGOS groups - I would love to find a group in my local area (upstate NY), but know of none. It would provide a larger audience in which to share your understanding and experience with LOGOS.

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138864#Comment_138864

Thanks Ron for the note.

The less than enthusiastic response was "Let me know if you have any other ideas." I wasn't sure how to interpret the comment which is why I am slow to write a detailed proposal. I respect the Adult Education Program and the leaders very much, but the Capstone response was discouraging. I do believe the ministry staff has access to Logos and it is not a new product to them. Perhaps they have never seen it as a tool for lay people.

I'm not sure how I'd interpret that kind of response either...especially if you believe that they are familiar with the product. How unfortunate.

I do like Mark's suggestion to try to find other people in the church who are already using it so that you can make a stronger case (that it is a useful tool for laypeople and there is an interest).

Geneva Smith Krag

A Logos User Group can be very useful and effective. I would urge you to pursue it.

One difficulty I experienced was in not getting more folks from our church to participate. The program is so very expensive for most folks!

I want to read about your ongoing success with the class. Please post to keep the forum readers (like me!) updated on your decisions, plans, experience, and results.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138870#Comment_138870

Maybe just a note on a bulletin board (if
you have those and can use them) "Using Logos Bible Software? Let's
talk."

Thanks Mark. Bulletin boards and suggestions box are not utilized at the church. (I suggested a suggestion box/ database system a couple of years back and it was turned down).

but I did take your bulletin board suggestion and posted something on my Facebook, so I will see what happens. Thanks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138904#Comment_138904

I'm not sure how I'd interpret that kind of response either...especially if you believe that they are familiar with the product. How unfortunate.

Yeah, it doesn't sound very happy , does it? I would much prefer an in-church project to help my fellow church members. But if Ron & Mark are misjudging the reason you receieved a lackluster resonse, a "stronger case" may come across as threatening or even a rebellion with that crowd of people standing with you. My brother is a pastor of a church in St. Louis. They have "small groups" that sound like your use of "Mini-Church." They have oversight of each small group with the blessing and direction of the church leadership. Churches that do not have such oversight and trust frequently view small groups as possible problems to be restrained. I hope that is not the case here.

A more detailed proposal with a bit of patience might be neccessary. The beneffits are worth the effort.

"It's amazing what you can accomplish when you don't care who gets the credit." - sign on Ronald Reagan's desk.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138912#Comment_138912

One difficulty I experienced was in not getting more folks from our church to participate. The program is so very expensive for most folks!

If you have one of our regional ministry folks come in to do a presentation to a group, we can work with you on this. You can always email me, my email is above in a reply to Nancy, or you can call the office 1800-87-LOGOS and ask for Rebekah Richoux in Ministry Development. She can see about booking someone to come in to your church or potential user group.

Blessings

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138912#Comment_138912

The program is so very expensive for most folks!

Thanks Niels. Yes, I agree that the software is expensive, however it is a relative thing. Microsoft Office is expensive too. I have one of the oldest cars in the parking lot and our family has gone through the unemployment blues this past year, but it still didn't stop me from purchasing the Logos 4 product. It was not an impulsive purchase either. I waited two years to buy it and was fortunate to finally be able to afford it when Logos 4 was announced.

When I watch how many $$ are spent on gaming software, I have to believe that there is some additional income for learning software. The church youth group has a couple of gaming machines for their entertainment area. They justify that it is okay because it was donated. It makes me wonder if education programs are victims of donations verses design. (i.e. we give out lots of candy in the youth area because it was donated). Oh...I keep my mouth shut most of the time.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138904#Comment_138904

Thanks for the idea. The capstone project can be a community project as well, which would mean that I could include anyone who is interested. The challenge is to get the blessing for the project so I can "graduate" from the program. Otherwise, I'm better off just waving hello to people in the parking lot and not upsetting the apple cart.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138916#Comment_138916

They have "small groups" that sound like your use of "Mini-Church." They have oversight of each small group with the blessing and direction of the church leadership.

Matthew, thanks for your thoughts. Yes, the church does have oversight of the small groups, gives blessings and manages them very well. Accountability is very strong. There is some resistance in the church to female leadership (except in the woman's and youth ministries.) But I don't think gender is the problem for my capstone idea.

"Re-thinking" technology does not seem to be a part of the education plan at the church. Classes are brick and mortar lectures, with online access to an mp3 if you miss the class. (that is the online program). Online access is not available at the church without special permission. I often hear rhetorical questions from the pastors questioning why more people (in a church of 3500) don't attend adult ed classes. Usually I am the only one who brings a computer to class and asks for special permission to gain Internet access. Lately it has been such a hassle that I leave the computer at home.

Suzy

Hi Nancy

Have you thought about presenting a more introductory level course initially and broadening the project to a wider application of the use of technology in general for getting into the Word. Maybe this could include presenting a range of possibilities including some of the free programs that are available.

It is possible that many have just never realised the technology/Bible connection and what benefits it can bring. Having the Word and some basic reference tools with you wherever you go on a variety of platforms eg iphone, ipad, laptop may be revolutionary for some and it would be great to get some of the younger folk (of all ages) excited about that.

Cost need not be a problem as if you had free community computers in your area (we have them in libraries here in Australia) it would be possible to people to access the Bible online and do basic study completely for free. Logos does also have the online Bible option etc.

I also think that there are ways of having a taste of Logos with very little cost. There is a thread somewhere that made some suggestions re this and about where to find some free Logos resources. Sorry I don’t have the link. One way could be for people to purchase a Libronix based package (which are still available for comparatively little cost with a bit of searching) and then to upgrade to the L4 engine is actually free (I think) and then after syncing the licenses those resources would be available in L4. (Someone with more experience please correct me if I am wrong)

My own personal experience indicates that once people are aware of the benefits of computer based Bible study they will gravitate to using Logos for the benefits it brings. As one of the sessions maybe you could take up Joe's suggestion and invite a representative to make a presentation about the benefits of high powered programs but it would have to be done very sensitively so as to not be misconstrued as a marketing ploy.

Once you have done an introductory course then the way may be open to have a Logos only based group on the future which BTW I think is a fantastic idea.

Just some thoughts and all the best with your Project – have fun and people will catch the excitement

All the best Sue

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138933#Comment_138933

Nancy, I seem to see a pattern here. Your church leadership seems to reject any ideas you come up with:

After briefly sharing my idea during a phone conversation, the response was respectful and cautious, but certainly not enthusiastic.

The less than enthusiastic response was "Let me know if you have any other ideas."

I recommended a church blog about 6 years ago, but the idea was dismissed very quickly.

(I suggested a suggestion box/ database system a couple of years back and it was turned down).

Have there been any ideas you've suggested that haven't been turned down? Otherwise, maybe the problem isn't in the ideas themselves but in how you present them (would approaching the leaders in person work better than over the phone, for example?), or in the leaders' attitudes towards you as a person capable of suggesting ideas to the church leaders. Maybe it is a gender thing after all. (You did mention they have resistance to female leadership and maybe the very act of suggesting new ideas comes under the rubric of a leadership role that women shouldn't have, in their eyes; or maybe the idea of you leading a group of people - men and women together - studying the Bible with Logos, goes against their theology.) Or maybe they just don't like change. Maybe it just takes time for them to warm up to ideas. You suggested the blog 6 years ago and only recently did they start one. Maybe they're like some people I know and they have to think it was their own idea before they'll adopt anything new. Maybe it was just an idea that was before its time. Now lots of churches have blogs so they don't have to feel like they are being trailblazers with a potential to fail, but six years ago it was too big a risk for them to take. Maybe that's the case with this Logos Users Group idea too. Can you find any other churches (by asking here on the forum) who have small groups studying the Bible using Logos, to show them that it's not a totally unheard of concept?

It does seem like you're in a challenging situation, and it sounds like you've been up against this before from some of the other statements you made: "I keep my mouth shut most of the time." "...not upsetting the apple cart." You are probably someone who is threatening to the status quo in some way and for that reason you're having trouble being heard, and so you've learned to keep quiet. I'm not sure what else to suggest other than prayer. I pray that if this is God's call to you, he will make a way for it to happen within a framework that is acceptable to your church, or elsewhere if it needs to be elsewhere. And that he will not let you let go of the vision if it is his call, but that if it isn't, you will be content to let it go. Blessings to you.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139048#Comment_139048

Have there been any ideas you've suggested that haven't been turned down? Otherwise, maybe the problem isn't in the ideas themselves but in how you present them (would approaching the leaders in person work better than over the phone, for example?), or in the leaders' attitudes towards you as a person capable of suggesting ideas to the church leaders. Maybe it is a gender thing after all. (You did mention they have resistance to female leadership and maybe the very act of suggesting new ideas comes under the rubric of a leadership role that women shouldn't have, in their eyes; or maybe the idea of you leading a group of people - men and women together - studying the Bible with Logos, goes against their theology.) Or maybe they just don't like change. Maybe it just takes time for them to warm up to ideas. You suggested the blog 6 years ago and only recently did they start one. Maybe they're like some people I know and they have to think it was their own idea before they'll adopt anything new.

It could be that it's the "not invented here" syndrome, but I tend to doubt that. I think you are up against some gender bias. Conservatives seem to stress the idea that women are to keep silent in the church, but I think that is a fundamental misunderstanding of Paul. I really think Paul was concerned with how female leadership would appear to those outside the church. It is clearly stated that a drunkard is not to be ordained -- why? I think that is because it tends to bring disrepute upon the church. The society of Paul's time was not like that of today where we have many females in leadership roles without generally raising a problem because of thier gender. What is generally overlooked is the equal assertion in the gospels that in the kingdom there is no diffference between male and female, bond or free. Some tend to view the Kingdom as "pie in the sky by and by", but I think it clearly refers to the Church. There should be no distinction in the Church. Karen Jo Torjesen wrote a book titled When Women Were Priests. I think her reasoning is somewhat questionable, and I don't think women were priests then, but what is clear is that women were NOT to "keep silent in the Church." Today the Conservatives tend to ossify such practice, but this is an error. The Episcopal Church, on the other hand tends to be addicted to anything novel. I have seen women who were preferred over men with obviously more ability. It is neither the case that someone is to be considered better because they are either male or female. I have seen women in the ministry whom I would consider as not qualified though I have also seen men who were not qualified.

Perhaps what you need to do is to seek out some male who has an interest in using Logos software for bible study and let him take the lead in pushing the project. Later, he can always defer to you if he so desires. In that case, you will know the basis for their lack of interest.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139048#Comment_139048

Have there been any ideas you've suggested that haven't been turned down?

Thanks Rosie (and everyone) for the insights and taking the time to post. Your thoughts are very interesting and intuitive. I hated to bring up the gender stuff, especially in regards to Logos, but I'm realizing it may be a bigger issue that I'm understanding. I do have many conversations with God about this and have spent time listening for insights.

Yes, some ideas at church have been accepted. But ideas and proposal that are typed up, documented and presented carefully are usually turned down. My husband has been willing to share my ideas with the church (written down or verbal). They have usually been accepted, especially when it comes to safety issues. He never mentions that I had something to do with the idea and feels bad about the situation. I have watched several women go through this scenario at church, so I don't feel so alone.

Other times I have had my ideas accepted based on flippant remarks. For example, the question was asked "Do you like the layout of the Church bulletin?" The truth was I thought the bulletin was a huge distraction during the church service, but I said "Of course I loved it because with ten pages of news in it, I brought my day planner to church and started scheduling future activities in the middle of the service, especially if it was boring. It was my Sunday morning spiritual newspaper. The only thing missing was cartoons! " I could see that they were politely horrified with my enthusiastic response. Soon the layout of the bulletin was changed to four pages, moving many of the activities to a church calendar. My comment was probably a tipping point.

I'm not sure why it works, but the goofy and off-beat comments seem to be heard better. People often say to me "I still think about what you said to me years ago." Of course, I can't remember what I said to them so long ago and I really don't think it was advice. Just a funny story or something like the comment above.

I suppose my next action is to ask the question "what is a capstone church project supposed to look like for a woman?"

P.S. It might help to know that I have spent several years as a College Instructor, both in the classroom and online. I approached the church capstone project as if it were a final college assignment.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139066#Comment_139066

Perhaps what you need to do is to seek out some male who has an interest in using Logos software for bible study and let him take the lead in pushing the project. Later, he can always defer to you if he so desires. In that case, you will know the basis for their lack of interest.

Thanks George. You made some excellent points about the gender bias. Had to laugh about the Episcopal church being addicted to anything new. I love new things too...especially technology.... but lack of money has taught me some discernment!

I have no energy on whether I am the spiritual leader of a Logos User group. I spent many years working as a programmer and technical trainer in a large aerospace company, so learning the LOGOS technology is what is driving me at the moment. I learn best when I'm sharing and teaching what I have learned with others (and vice versa). It's my sweet spot .

My husband has no interest in using Logos software, but he said he would be willing to be a figurehead for politics sake if needed. A couple of years ago he was moved into a leadership position at the church that he didn't want because of a similar situation involving a woman leader (who was 110% capable of the job). He ended up deferring all the work to her. I had forgotten about this until I read your posting. I guess I'm starting to see a pattern.

Gracias!

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139147#Comment_139147

Other times I have had my ideas accepted based on flippant remarks. For example, the question was asked "Do you like the layout of the Church bulletin?" The truth was I thought the bulletin was a huge distraction during the church service, but I said "Of course I loved it because with ten pages of news in it, I brought my day planner to church and started scheduling future activities in the middle of the service, especially if it was boring. It was my Sunday morning spiritual newspaper. The only thing missing was cartoons! " I could see that they were politely horrified with my enthusiastic response. Soon the layout of the bulletin was changed to four pages, moving many of the activities to a church calendar. My comment was probably a tipping point.

I was expecting you to say they revamped the bulletin and added cartoons, at your suggestion! :-)

Sounds like they don't know how to take you, or smart women in general, seriously. Sad, but unfortunately not uncommon. It seems inconsistent of them to have this capstone project opportunity available for women and yet not allow them to do something meaningful with it. It would be interesting to find out what they think a capstone project is supposed to look like for a woman. However they might take even that question as an intimation of insubordination.

Some churches are steadfast in their denial of any leadership roles to women and the women in them seem fine with that and don't rock the boat. Other churches make no distinction whatsoever between men's and women's roles and can't understand what all the fuss is about. But there are a large number of churches caught somewhere in the middle, still unsure of what to do about the "gender issue," wanting to be faithful to the Bible (as they understand its pronouncements on these matters) and yet hearing mixed messages from the culture, contemporary biblical interpreters, their own instincts, and the obvious giftings God has given the women in their midst. How do they let these women shine without offending God's principles? Are their understandings of God's principles culture-bound? These are all serious matters deserving of faithful discernment. I'm afraid we won't be able to discuss this much further in this forum without getting into discussions of various "-isms" on which I'm sure there are vastly differing opinions here, which would go beyond the guidelines of this forum.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139164#Comment_139164

It seems inconsistent of them to have this capstone project opportunity available for women and yet not allow them to do something meaningful with it. It would be interesting to find out what they think a capstone project is supposed to look like for a woman. However they might take even that question as an intimation of insubordination.

I suppose it is possible only part of the leadership has a bias against women while another part would welcome Nancy's contribututions but is paralyzed for fear of offending the biased. Then there is the mindset that offers women the opportunity but is shocked when the offer is taken [:|] Lastly, the leadership could be shocked anybody would actually try something challenging regardless of gender. Nancy appears to be a high achiever while many students would prefer a "Greeter crew" capstone project.

Nancy, I'm sure it isn't the first (or last) time you will have these hurdles to overcome. I hope you do get to do this project because many people will be blessed by it.

Suzy

There certainly seem to be some interesting dynamics at work here. At first I thought it may be a resistance to the software but it seems to be a bigger issue and more complicated than that. It is a tension that is more global than just this situation. There has been some interesting discussion on this thread that I (and probably many others) can certainly identify with.

I pray that some doorways open up as you have so much to offer. It would be such a beneficial project. I would love to be part of such a Logos Bible Study group that you propose so I'm sure that in your large Church there would be others that feel the same.

Please keep us posted and I'm praying that your project eventuates

Sue

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139066#Comment_139066

What is generally overlooked is the equal assertion in the gospels that in the kingdom there is no diffference between male and female, bond or free.

I want to mention a couple of things here that do carry a bit into forum guidelines. However, I feel I have a little that can be said.

Certainly in the kingdom there is no difference between male and female, We are all sinners in need of a savior. I however can not go to the extreme of woman in leadership to a man. Woman was created from and for assistance to man. Not visa-versa. The head of the house is the man. Upon saying these two things....I need to say....Woman leadership in church? yes, as long as it is not "over" a man. Can a woman share her faith with a man? certainly, as we are all saints by the work of Christ. Can woman speak in church? Yes, as long as it is not "leadership" of church service. Today, we certainly have a drastic confusion of roles of men and women alike. Man is not to "control" or lord over the woman. The woman is to "submit" but not be "submissive" to the man.

In conclusion, this denying of "project" based on gender would be bad.....I feel. I do not feel this is a "leadership" over a man in regard to spiritual matters. The only thing I see here "which is really bad" is the lack of desire of the church staff to have its members get more into the word. I would never claim home study instead of church bible study. Going to church and going to bible study are good things. Forsaking these things to do it alone is wrong. We need the fellowship with others.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139164#Comment_139164

I was expecting you to say they revamped the bulletin and added cartoons, at your suggestion! :-)

Me too - I was expecting the "We have cartoons now" comment. [:)]

Nancy,

I want to say something encouraging here, but I'm stuck on what to say or suggest. Just know that others are reading your comments here too, with a mixture of feelings on some of what you are facing.

- Jim T.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139275#Comment_139275

Man is not to "control" or lord over the woman. The woman is to "submit" but not be "submissive" to the man.

Archie Bunker: "Stiffle, Edith."

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139282#Comment_139282

Archie Bunker: "Stiffle, Edith."

????

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139282#Comment_139282

Half the time I'm laughing with the posts...the other half I'm wondering... thanks... you all "lift me up."

I have gained much clarity through this discussion and I will let you know how things go...or don't go... either way...I'll will still be using Logos.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139286#Comment_139286

????

You're giving away your age ... you don't remember the TV series "All in the Family", do you? [:D]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139291#Comment_139291

????

You're giving away your age ... you don't remember the TV series "All in the Family", do you?

I don't watch TV at all (for over 10 years now), but I THINK it's still being broadcast.

William

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139291#Comment_139291

You're giving away your age

What, I am a middle aged man?

you don't remember the TV series "All in the Family", do you?

I certainly remember "All in the Family" I know that Archie was a bit of a freak (his way or the highway), but, Edith was her own person as well. When she stood up...she was usually the smart one.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/139321#Comment_139321

I certainly remember "All in the Family" I know that Archie was a bit of a freak (his way or the highway), but, Edith was her own person as well. When she stood up...she was usually the smart one.

Here are my favorite Archie quotes on his faith http://www.morethancake.org/2008/08/all-in-the-faith-with-archie-bunker.html