L8 for Catalina update clearly labelled and made optional to download and install.

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This post has 15 Replies | 1 Follower

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Posted: Sun, Oct 20 2019 6:09 AM

Hi developers:

Situation: Some of us are thinking before going onto the Catalina version of L8.

Problem: Sometimes the update is downloaded and installed without conscious awareness from the user, which renders the program unusable in a previous OS.

Could you make the update optional? i.e. not to show as "updates ready to be downloaded", but instead:

"New version for L8 in Catalina", so we do not download it nor install it?

I have an older OS, and am interested on downloading other resources, but do not want the Catalina update to cease L8 from working in the old system.

I may eventually get a laptop and set Verbum to be able to continue getting the improvements in Catalina, but right now I do not want to lose the desktop L8 in my non-Catalina OS.

Thanks for any input on this.

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mab | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 10:23 AM

This shouldn't make L8 stop working on Mojave or earlier. I think you are worrying about nothing at the moment.

The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter

Posts 729
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 11:08 AM

mab:

This shouldn't make L8 stop working on Mojave or earlier. I think you are worrying about nothing at the moment.

So mab, are you saying that the update for Catalina of L8 will be backwards compatible? i.e. will run ok in Sierra?

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 11:31 AM

I wouldn’t think of it as a Catalina upgrade but as an upgrade that supports Catalina. 
Minimum system requirements are at https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007506971-Logos-Minimum-System-Requirements

Posts 729
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 1:49 PM

Yes Graham, but previous upgrades that supported a higher OS made Logos not work in the lower OS.

That is what I am trying to avoid. I do not want to press the "download updates" link in the "updates are available for download" to then have Logos 8 not start because the new version is for Catalina, and does not work with previous OS. e.g. Sierra.

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Oct 20 2019 3:04 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
previous upgrades that supported a higher OS made Logos not work in the lower OS.

That is what I am trying to avoid. I do not want to press the "download updates" link in the "updates are available for download" to then have Logos 8 not start because the new version is for Catalina, and does not work with previous OS. e.g. Sierra.

Faithlife will support 10.11.6 and higher. Which means that 10.12 Sierra is supported for Logos 8, and you should report any problems in the usual way.

Dave
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 21 2019 8:45 AM

Hamilton Ramos:
Problem: Sometimes the update is downloaded and installed without conscious awareness from the user, which renders the program unusable in a previous OS.

One way to avoid automatic desktop update is using command: set update channel to manual

If want automatic desktop updating, can use command: Set Update Channel to Default

Hamilton Ramos:
I have an older OS, and am interested on downloading other resources, but do not want the Catalina update to cease L8 from working in the old system.

Curious about older macOS version ?

Logos Wiki => Logos Release History includes 8.11 and Newer releases will be supported on Windows 10 version 1809+, macOS 10.14 Mojave, or macOS 10.15 Catalina link to forum thread => ANNOUNCEMENT: End of support for Windows 7, Windows 8.1 & MacOS 10.11–10.13

Logos 8.8 and Verbum 8.8 are the first desktop releases that are supported on macOS 10.15 Catalina.

Faithlife development is supporting five macOS versions with desktop 8.8, 8.9, and 8.10 releases:

  • macOS 10.15 Catalina
  • macOS 10.14 Mojave
  • macOS 10.13 High Sierra
  • macOS 10.12 Sierra
  • macOS 10.11 El Capitan

Starting with 8.11 release in February 2020, Faithlife will support macOS 10.14 Mojave & macOS 10.15 Catalina (so no bug fixes for older macOS & Faithlife development no longer testing desktop release on older macOS versions). If experience desktop 8.11+ crash on older macOS, then upgrade to newer macOS may be needed (can post diagnostic logs in a forum thread for review, which may offer an alternative to newer macOS). Wikipedia => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacOS_Mojave includes Mac system requirements for macOS 10.14 Mojave & macOS 10.15 Catalina (graphics processor must support Metal)

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 21 2019 8:55 AM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Hamilton Ramos:
Problem: Sometimes the update is downloaded and installed without conscious awareness from the user, which renders the program unusable in a previous OS.

One way to avoid automatic desktop update is using command: set update channel to manual

If want automatic desktop updating, can use command: Set Update Channel to Default

Caveat about Manual desktop update is newer desktop releases can add newer datatype(s) for resource(s) so those datatype(s) would be unusable in an older desktop (and possibly newer resource also not be usable in older desktop release).

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 21 2019 1:33 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Hamilton Ramos:
Problem: Sometimes the update is downloaded and installed without conscious awareness from the user, which renders the program unusable in a previous OS.

One way to avoid automatic desktop update is using command: set update channel to manual

But how will Hamilton know/trust that it is "safe" to actually allow a software update? Your caveat above only illustrates that features could be missed, and also bug fixes! There are enough issues associated with Mac OS to deter me from ever going to a Mac, but a Mac (and Windows) enthusiast should accept that bugs will be discovered, and that it is rare to completely prevent use of the software.

Dave
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Oct 21 2019 5:43 PM

Dave Hooton:
But how will Hamilton know/trust that it is "safe" to actually allow a software update? Your caveat above only illustrates that features could be missed, and also bug fixes!

One option for "safe" software update is forum discussion asking about desktop release (8.11+) and operating system experience.

Currently safe to allow desktop application updates through 8.10 release (January 2020).

Dave Hooton:
There are enough issues associated with Mac OS to deter me from ever going to a Mac, but a Mac (and Windows) enthusiast should accept that bugs will be discovered, and that it is rare to completely prevent use of the software.

Depends on what changes (bug and/or security) that affects desktop application usability. For example, server security change to TLS 1.2 disabled many older Logos & Verbum releases on Windows and Mac from connecting to Faithlife servers (became offline only).

If desktop applications on macOS change to require Metal support in the Graphics Processor, then macOS 10.14 Mojave becomes practical minimum. Mojave and Catalina are supported on hardware that goes back to mid 2012 (seven years old) for many Mac models.

FYI: am in the process of upgrading a MacBook Air (2013 model) to macOS 10.15 Catalina (after experiencing an iOS 13.1.2 upgrade that disabled my iPhone for over a day).

Personal opinion of Mac (going back to the second Mac released: 512K "Fat" Mac) and Windows (dating back to Windows 3.0 on MS-DOS 5.0) is both Apple & Microsoft provide opportunities for discussion with Microsoft tending to have more security issues/updates plus printing issues. Windows has to support significantly more diverse hardware configurations (with associated risk of more compatibility/exploitation issues). Apple tends to include more usable applications with macOS than Microsoft does with Windows (to encourage purchase of partner software). Due to software piracy, changing/upgrading hardware for Windows can be problematic. In contrast, migrating from an older Mac to a newer one is typically easy. Initial Apple hardware typically costs more than Windows (while including free macOS operating system upgrade annually) plus integration between macOS and iOS usually works well. For me, Apple's macOS needs less of my time for security maintenance than Windows.

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Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2019 3:46 AM

Thanks for the info KS4J:

I wonder how persons having an old pre L8 version keep it working and are able to download  resources without having the program cease working.

Peace and grace.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2019 3:07 PM

Hamilton Ramos:

I wonder how persons having an old pre L8 version keep it working and are able to download  resources without having the program cease working.

Peace and grace.

Thread => Logos 7.13 Works, later Logos 7 does not; where can I download 7.13 ? started on 22 Jul 2019 resulted in Logos Wiki page => Logos Downloads Archive plus old stable download links added to Logos Release History

Thread => Bug: Error Occurred During Synchronization started on 22 Sep 2018 describes an issue with Logos 7.13 on OS X 10.10.5 (on a ten year old Mac model)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2019 4:16 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Dave Hooton:
But how will Hamilton know/trust that it is "safe" to actually allow a software update? Your caveat above only illustrates that features could be missed, and also bug fixes!

One option for "safe" software update is forum discussion asking about desktop release (8.11+) and operating system experience.

Currently safe to allow desktop application updates through 8.10 release (January 2020).

Hamilton hasn't reported the version of MacOS he has, but he is concerned that any release supporting Catalina (Logos 8.8+) is not "safe". If you now advise that 8.8 to 8.10 would be "safe", why did you advise preventing updates via "Set update channel to manual"?

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Dave Hooton:
There are enough issues associated with Mac OS to deter me from ever going to a Mac, but a Mac (and Windows) enthusiast should accept that bugs will be discovered, and that it is rare to completely prevent use of the software.

Depends on what changes (bug and/or security) that affects desktop application usability. For example, server security change to TLS 1.2 disabled many older Logos & Verbum releases on Windows and Mac from connecting to Faithlife servers (became offline only).

What I meant by "there are enough issues associated with Mac OS" is that Logos on Mac is more sensitive to changes in the OS than Logos on Windows. It wasn't intended as a  Mac attack. It was a prelude to my generic comment on discovering "bugs" in Logos on any OS.

Requiring TLS 1.2 was a planned change for Logos and could not be a "bug" in older versions.

So your comments on "Metal" and "Personal opinion" of Mac and Windows didn't address my point.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

Posts 729
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2019 6:10 PM

Howdy Dave:

I have 2 desktops an old one that I still keep because of certain programs I have there. I erased Logos after it ceased working when I "downloaded updates" that were available and did not specify it was a version for a higher OS.

I was happy to erase Logos because that freed space I needed with the other programs.

Then I have a Sierra one, that has plenty of space, so downloading resources will not be a problem. What I am afraid of is to download update to find that is the new version for Catalina and then have it not work anymore in this Sierra desktop.

I may buy a notebook (laptop) with Catalina and run Verbum instead to be able to make good in the improvements. 

At the time since my desktop is working fine and has plenty of space, I see no need to buy a new desktop running Catalina. Also running a new OS does not guarantee that my other programs will work there.

Hope this clarifies my situation.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 22 2019 10:30 PM

Hamilton Ramos:
What I am afraid of is to download update to find that is the new version for Catalina and then have it not work anymore in this Sierra desktop.

Update scenario issue becomes a possibility with 8.11+ releases starting in February 2020.

What is the Mac model running macOS 10.12 Sierra ? Apple => About This Mac

Note: Mac model, year and Memory is needed to research macOS upgrade options.

Hamilton Ramos:
Also running a new OS does not guarantee that my other programs will work there.

Currently planning to keep my 27" iMac running macOS 10.14 Mojave so can use several 32 bit applications. Apple removed 32 bit support from macOS 10.15 Catalina (so all applications must be 64 bit).

Dave Hooton:

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Dave Hooton:
But how will Hamilton know/trust that it is "safe" to actually allow a software update? Your caveat above only illustrates that features could be missed, and also bug fixes!

One option for "safe" software update is forum discussion asking about desktop release (8.11+) and operating system experience.

Currently safe to allow desktop application updates through 8.10 release (January 2020).

Hamilton hasn't reported the version of MacOS he has, but he is concerned that any release supporting Catalina (Logos 8.8+) is not "safe". If you now advise that 8.8 to 8.10 would be "safe", why did you advise preventing updates via "Set update channel to manual"?

Update channel command answered original post question by Hamilton. Command work around is not needed until January 2020 since macOS 10.12 Sierra is supported by Faithlife through 8.10 stable release.

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Posts 729
Hamilton Ramos | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Oct 23 2019 3:51 PM

Hi KS4J:

I do not want to upgrade my OS in my normal desktop, I am sure some of the programs I use will not work with the Catalina OS.

I may consider getting a notebook with Catalina, and install Verbum to be able to make good on the improvements.

I guess I will download up to 8.10, then will consider doing Catalina on a new notebook.

Peace and Grace.

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