OT: Matching Up Geology, Agriculture, and Archaeological Settlement: Persian Yahud

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Denise | Forum Activity | Posted: Thu, Nov 14 2019 10:07 AM

https://www.logos.com/product/15767/the-emergence-of-yehud-in-the-persian-period-a-social-and-demographic-study 

Again, not for most Logosians, but for the fewer that are curious.

The above is a very detailed attempt to match up geology, rainfall, settlement, and economy. It centers on the least documented period (Persian), but overlaps backward (Iron II) and forward (Hellenism).

If you have Anchor Bible Dictionary (Geography and the Bible), Anchor has a lengthy discussion of Palestine geology and social interaction (why Napoleon shifted away from the sea coast!)  A good in-depth discussion.

But Anchor and others tend to generalize the geological maps ... ergo the above Yahud volume that not only is much more detailed, but locates and classes the various settlements relative to survivability, and estimated dates/population.

And for my more immediate curiousity, where did the bears and lions live? (the OT had bunches).


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Veli Voipio | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 11:50 AM

Denise:
And for my more immediate curiousity, where did the bears and lions live? (the OT had bunches).

They live in the open savannah, they are not really forest animals - as far as I know.

Here is a story from Kenya, more than 100 years ago:

"Man-eaters were known to roam Kima, Simba and Kiu stations. Ryall on his journey from Mombasa to Nairobi, decided to break his journey at Kima, to hunt he man-eater. Parenti and Huebner agreed to be with Ryall, on duty at night in their carriage. Ryall lowered all windows and left open the sliding door. Ryall could see eyes of "couple of rats" in the dark. Lights were out in the carriage. Ryall must have gone to sleep on his watch. The lion came in and took Ryall in his jaws, ... "

The hunter functioned also as a bait. Not a good idea.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 12:51 PM

Veli Voipio:
Here is a story from Kenya, more than 100 years ago:

Reminds me of a totally OT story from less than 50 years ago:

Sandeep, a second or third grader, had visited his grandparents over the summer. When answering the traditional "what did you do over the summer" question in an urban US school, Sandeep waxed elegant on a man-eating tiger. This resulted in a note to his parents which he duly delivered. This resulted in his Mother appearing in his class with pictures of his grandparents' village in Kashmir which had, in fact, been plagued by a man-eating tiger that summer. Sandeep enjoyed the teacher's chagrin.

I use this event to remind myself ... context, context, context . . .

Thanks for the reference, Denise.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 1:09 PM

Veli Voipio:
They live in the open savannah, they are not really forest animals - as far as I know.

Now, Veli, you avoided my gracious invitation. And the quote was good, thank you.

Ancient kings (aka gods) were measured by their lion-killing prowess (best known, the Assyrian). But where did they find lions?  I agree, the African savannah, but a few enemy kings in the way. The 'bear' killed the man of God (his bones had prophet-power). I've read hints Palestine was much more forested, but still.

Now, village tigers ... 


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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 1:16 PM

Wikipedia:

Historically, the Syrian brown bear occurred in the Middle East from Turkey to Turkmenistan. Today, the brown bear is extirpated in Jordan and Israel and survives only in Turkey, Iran and Iraq. In Syria, brown bear tracks were recorded in the snow in the Anti-Lebanon Mountains in 2004 for the first time in five decades. In February 2011, bear tracks were again recorded in this area.

In Turkey, important habitats are Mediterranean belt forests, deciduous and conifer forests in the Black Sea region and northeastern Turkey, oak and pine forests in the hinterlands of the Black Sea, and dry forests in East Anatolia. In elevation, these habitats range from 500 to 2,700 m (1,600 to 8,900 ft). In Iran, it is present in the Central Alborz Protected Area south of the Caspian Sea and in the Zagros Mountains. In these regions, it prefers higher altitudes and northern aspects with access to water resources.


I would assume that the bears' taste in environment has changed very little and that it is the availability that has primarily changed the bears' range. 

Wikipedia:

The Asiatic lion used to occur in Arabia, Palestine, Mesopotamia and Baluchistan. In South Caucasia, it was known since the Holocene and became extinct in the 10th century. Until the middle of the 19th century, it survived in regions adjoining Mesopotamia and Syria, and was still sighted in the upper reaches of the Euphrates River in the early 1870s. By the late 19th century, the Asiatic lion had become extinct in Saudi Arabia and Turkey. The last known lion in Iraq was killed on the lower Tigris in 1918.

Historical records in Iran indicate that it ranged from the Khuzestan Plain to the Fars Province at elevations below 2,000 m (6,600 ft) in steppe vegetation and pistachio-almond woodlands. It was widespread in the country, but in the 1870s, it was sighted only on the western slopes of the Zagros Mountains, and in the forest regions south of Shiraz. It served as the national emblem and appeared on the country's flag. Some of the country's last lions were sighted in 1941 between Shiraz and Jahrom in the Fars Province, and in 1942, a lion was spotted about 65 km (40 mi) northwest of Dezful. In 1944, the corpse of a lioness was found on the banks of the Karun River in Iran's Khuzestan Province.


Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 1:21 PM

MJ. Smith:
the bears' taste in environment has changed very little and that it is the availability that has primarily changed the bears' range

Thank you!


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Lee | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 1:21 PM

I've heard of bear maulings in very unexpected places, some nearly fatal.

But let's get back on track (pun intended). Any Logos resources out there that discusses the different kinds of lions in the OT? This is a particularly thorny issue.

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Denise | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Nov 14 2019 2:16 PM

Lee:
thorny issue.

Yep. The hebrew is pretty flexible, the OT text pretty definite (lions coming up from the Jordan, large enough for bees nests, etc), enthronement accounts, and farmers using lions to kill boar (rural Syria).  

We have our cougars and mountain lions but size-wise they're small. And chariots at full bore would toss an unanchored king.


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