Mark Driscoll Sermon Archive - I think I want a refund

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This post has 80 Replies | 8 Followers

Posts 225
Michael Birney | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Jun 25 2010 5:25 AM | Locked

I am preaching through 2nd Timothy, so as a resource I read through the Driscoll sermons on 2nd Tim - they are aweful.  "All about me me me, my life is hard, I am so important, but here are 3 points you can get from this passage" would be my summary of his sermons I've read.  He says he is going through a rough patch, but.....

Maybe 2nd Timothy is his worst and they get A LOT better - if that is your experience tell me where to read - I'd be glad to change my mind and not ask for the refund - but I don't have much time, so please let me know.

Posts 222
Bob Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 5:42 AM | Locked

i would be interesting in hearing more feedback before i consider ordering this product.  thanks Michael.

River of Life Church: http://LifeOverflowing.org

Visit my blog: http://LifeOverflowing.org/pastor

 

Posts 168
Bill Gordon | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 5:54 AM | Locked

I decided I didn't want to hear (much less buy) a Mark Driscoll sermon after reading the following article by Baptist Press: http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30700 

Posts 302
John Graves | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 6:21 AM | Locked

I decided to purchase the Sermon Archive after reading his book, "vintage church."  He seemed really good at practical application so I wanted to see how he used it in his sermons.  Well his sermons are more like little talks and most of them are about him, you are right.  The problem is, either they aren't tagged very well or he just doesn't preach from a text.  I too am a bit disappointed in it.  I wan't expecting to agree with him on a lot of things, knowing his background, but I was hoping to glean some insight from someone who is really reaching out to the younger generations. 

I would not buy it again.  If I could get a refund I probablly would.  BTW, I am not a Driscoll hater, I think he plays an important role in reaching people for Christ that no one else would.  Its just that his sermons are not all that helpful in dealing with different texts of scripture.  Maybe it would be better to look at the topically rather than expositionally.  Just my two cents. 

Posts 1367
JimTowler | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 6:29 AM | Locked

I have downloaded and watched a number of the videos of Mark, from the Mars Hill web site (and links on iTunes).

I have read the above press article, and understand a need for caution in some contexts. Yet I also think there are important messages the Chruch is too scared to touch. Its no easy thing to balance this kind of matter.

I'm not here speaking for or against Mark and anything he might have said. I'm just saying this is not an easy thing.

I think its great that Logos offers this resource for sale, to those that wish it. But its OK too, for those that don't want it. I considered it, but decided not to purchase it in the end. Partly due to other big spends in Logos already.

Logos has a wide range of products. There are some I wish was withdrawn from sale as I strongly disagree with their position on some matters. But there are other customers that would want different products withdrawn, that I value. Choice is good. And each needs to pass everything thru their own filters of standards, doctrine-position and so on.

I'm not sure if my comments here serve much use, except to call for balance, and caution about whatever anyone posts next please.

Posts 1539
Terry Poperszky | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 6:50 AM | Locked

Interesting. He hadn't come across my radar screen. I wonder if he used Logos approved word study techniques to come up with his interpretation of Song of Solomon.

 

 

Posts 508
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 7:09 AM | Locked

So, just wondering, but who here has listened to or read the Song of Solomon series Driscoll preached? I think its refreshing to hear a preacher preaching about what the Song of Solomon really is about. None of that reinterpreting of it because the real meaning makes us blush too much.

I'm a fan of Driscoll and his preaching because many times he's willing to talk about things that many pastors simply don't, can't, or won't talk about. The only thing I didn't like about the Logos version of his sermons was that they were directly transcribed without much editing for flow. The audience's reactions were even included, which I didn't care for.

It'd be nice if these few problems were fixed. That and I wonder when and if the sermons will ever be updated with new ones, like they did with John Piper's?

Posts 3163
Dominick Sela | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 7:41 AM | Locked

I got the Driscoll sermons, as I am always looking for good ideas. The first thing that jumped out at me is his language is sometimes a little too guttteral/informal for my taste, even to making jokes about bodily functions. Not what I am used to hearing from the pulpit.

Posts 225
Michael Birney | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 7:55 AM | Locked

I did not mean to bash on Driscoll, I actually have listened to and gotten something out of some of his podcasts,  I don't really care if you like him or not, it's not what I asked.  (Following line is edited, the original was a little harsh) In my original question, I tried to word it to ask specifically about the resource to avoid a bash on Mark Driscoll thread - I'd like to keep it that way. 

But the sermons I have read have been horrible - I was hoping that he was just off his game for that time and was looking for input on the rest of the resource - is it worth keeping? 

I know that I have had some horrible sermons in my day - many more than I would like to admit - so this is not criticism just to pile on Driscoll - it's just my observation (read the first 2 sermons in the 2nd Tim series).

Still would like some input from those who have and have used the resource, are others reading and getting some value out of them?  Or is it time to ask for a refund?

 

Posts 508
Greg | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 9:17 AM | Locked

Michael, 

I haven't listened to or read fully the sermons you're referring to, so whether my quick assessment can help, I don't know. I did read briefly through the first sermon in the 2 Timothy series.

I think Driscoll was talking about the things you brought up because 2 Timothy is about pastors, and with him being a pastor in the same vein as Paul (church planter), he's in a good position to expand on the context of 2 Timothy. It looks like he explains what being a pastor is about to help his audience connect to Paul and Timothy's situation. He may have gone into how hard his own life as a pastor is so his audience can try and understand, in whatever small way, what it may have been like for Paul to be doing what he did despite being in jail. Why does he spend so much time explaining what a pastor does in his sermon?  Probably because most people in his church simply don't know because this is the first church they've ever been a part of. That's what you get when you plant a church in the least churched city in America and have it grow to 7,000 members.

Driscoll's sermons tend to follow a set pattern. He usually goes through whole books of the Bible and unpacks the meaning and applications of whatever section he is preaching on for that week, but he does so in a way geared towards the needs of unchurched baby Christians.

One very important thing to keep in mind is that Driscoll is not a scholarly minded preacher. His sermons are already distilled for the common man to understand and benefit from. As I said, most of the people in Driscoll's church are first generation Christians, so this is why he takes a "bottom line" approach to his preaching. So I'm not sure what you may be looking for in Driscoll's sermons, but if you want to use them as an aid to your own preaching, just remember they are already about as basic as you can get. Perhaps instead of looking for great insights into the scriptures, maybe look at how he communicates the truths of scripture to his audience. He seems to do that part very well, judging by the tremendous growth of his church even before he became famous.

I personally enjoy Driscoll because of his clarity in communicating the meaning of scripture, the freshness and frankness of his ideas, and his ability to talk to the common man and identify with him. I've also been impressed by the depth of his knowledge and understanding on whatever issue or subject he is talking about. Whether it be scripture itself, different theological positions, issues of church history, or current perspectives on whatever topic, he's a man who has done his homework, and it shows in his preaching. This might be why he's such a good communicator too; he has a lot to draw from to connect with his audience. My mind is engaged when I listen to him, and that's exciting to me. Being in my late 20's, I'm also his target audience.

I'd say listen to Driscoll preach rather than just read the transcripts. There is a difference in the experience, I think, and that may effect how one looks at him. His "Religion Saves" series was what got me hooked, and since its on so many topics it might be a good way for you to gauge Driscoll's content and preaching style better.

Frankly, he's gonna be different than what most people are used to because his audience is different. If you're up for that, great. If not, I'm sure you can find someone to buy the sermons off you for the original pre-pub price.

 

Posts 2279
Andy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 10:10 AM | Locked

Michael Birney:

But the sermons I have read have been horrible - I was hoping that he was just off his game for that time and was looking for input on the rest of the resource - is it worth keeping? 

Hi Michael,

I should preface this by saying that I hold Mark Driscoll and Mars Hill Church in high regard. I regularly listen to the podcasts and own all of his books. I think that the Resurgence, in particular, is a great gift to the church. I also greatly value Logos and appreciate this may be a third-party resource.

In terms of this resource, I have read a fair selection and I the quality in terms of content is what I expected. I do suspect that the quality of the sermons may improve as you reach the series on 1 Corinthians. I do not think this is a controversial observation as I am sure I have heard Mark Driscoll say as much. (It also makes sense that experience will bring a greater degree of refinement.)

The positive with this resources is that you get a huge amount of content. There are around 150 sermons here, including special one off conference messages.

The weakness, in my opinion, is the formatting. The resource is in effect a transcript of the sermon as delivered. If Mark stutters, the transcript reflects this (with 'er...' and 'huh', I am really excited that there may be either a 'kerrrrppppppooooow' or 'keeeerrrrrruuuunnnnnch' in there somewhere). Where the congregations laughs, this is signalled in the transcript with, '(laughter)'.

This convention works in as much as it communicates the tone of Mark Driscoll's preaching (which is lively, funny (at least I think so) and informal). The problem, however, is that it is (in my view) difficult to read and difficult to follow along with the passage. Each sermon is pretty much a continuous chunk of prose with no divisions or subheading. Oftentimes it is difficult to see which passage of Scripture he is referencing. This is a world apart from the tight formatting style of, say, the John Piper Sermon Collection.

More disappointing are the incomplete transcriptions, for example,

And the word there is [inaudible] in Hebrew. Not gonna claim to be a great Hebrew scholar, but this is what it said. Now, these words are very important because [inaudible] means to create from nothing. It’s the original creation. And then [inaudible] is to create in terms of preparing for human life. The point here is that God made everything, and then he prepared it for human life.

Mark Driscoll, Mark Driscoll Sermon Archive 2005-2009 (Bellingham, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 2009).

This, in my opinion, is rather shoddy... I suspect the [inaudible] word is significant... I understood from the promo video that Mark Driscoll was involved in preparing the resource and I would have expected stuff like this to be fixed.

The resource also is also lacking in terms of references. One of the things that impresses me about Mark Driscoll is the way in which he uses secondary sources. Perhaps my expectations were unrealistic on this latter point, but I had hoped these references would be properly footnoted.

I am aware that I could exercise my consumer right and ask for a refund, only I do want the Mark Driscoll Sermon Archive in my library. I just wish it was more expertly executed. Oh, and a whole lot prettier...

 

 

 

 

Posts 825
JRS | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 12:08 PM | Locked

Bill Gordon:

I decided I didn't want to hear (much less buy) a Mark Driscoll sermon after reading the following article by Baptist Press: http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30700 

Thank you for the reference to the review article.   

"Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, let your mind dwell on these things."

In my opinion, I do not believe Driscoll's take on SofS is true, honorable, right, pure, lovely, of good repute, contains any excellence, or anything worthy of praise. 

JRS has left the building.

Posts 2834
Forum MVP
Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 12:31 PM | Locked

Bill Gordon:

I decided I didn't want to hear (much less buy) a Mark Driscoll sermon after reading the following article by Baptist Press: http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30700 

Thanks for the link to the article on Driscoll. I can't believe what I have just read! It is best if I make no further comment, there is really nothing more to say.

Ted

 

Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ

Posts 411
Ken Shawver | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 5:16 PM | Locked

Ted Hans:

Bill Gordon:

I decided I didn't want to hear (much less buy) a Mark Driscoll sermon after reading the following article by Baptist Press: http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30700 

Thanks for the link to the article on Driscoll. I can't believe what I have just read! It is best if I make no further comment, there is really nothing more to say.

Ted

 

 

Thanks Bill, I had not read that one, but had read several other items that made me question if his approach. Personally I don't think the language, crude descriptions, or fleshly stories are appropriate coming from any pulpit. I don't believe it glorifies the Father at all. Not particularly towards Mr. Driscoll, although I did write to Bible Study Magazine when he was featured, is my concern over the Emergent and Emerging Church movements.

In Christ,

Ken

Dell Studio 1555; 15.6 True Life LCD; Intel Core 2 Duo T6600 2.20 GHz, 2M Cache, 800 MHz FSB ; 500GB 5400 HDD; 8GB RAM, Win 10, Chrome 70

http://wiki.logos.com/

Posts 656
Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 5:40 PM | Locked

While you can get a refund from Logos, just make sure that you do your research on him first. As much as Driscoll hangs out with Piper and Carson, he is not really your typical expository preacher. He does not do in-depth exegetical and theological analysis from the pulpit like a MacArthur will. The Peasant Princess messages were his most racy sermon series, and I don't think that he will ever do something quite as rated R again. Not that he shouldn't talk about sex in very frank terms (Driscoll's location in Seattle demands it), but he did go over the edge at times. Mark has certainly matured lately and in spite of his weaknesses, I am very glad he is on the side of the angels.

Posts 4508
Robert Pavich | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 5:59 PM | Locked

Bill Gordon:
I decided I didn't want to hear (much less buy) a Mark Driscoll sermon after reading the following article by Baptist Press: http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30700 

Ditto.

I've found his preaching to be shallow and too vulgar for me.

Robert Pavich

For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__

Posts 1674
Paul Golder | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 6:08 PM | Locked

Robert Pavich:

Bill Gordon:
I decided I didn't want to hear (much less buy) a Mark Driscoll sermon after reading the following article by Baptist Press: http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30700 

Ditto.

I've found his preaching to be shallow and too vulgar for me.

I would have to agree. While I believe he is very close to the meaning of the text, I also believe that the graphic description of marital relations are better kept in a private counseling session, not in the pulpit.

"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."

Posts 225
Michael Birney | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 6:37 PM | Locked

Another thread says it well - "Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. (Col 4:6)".  http://community.logos.com/forums/t/18853.aspx

I know I used the words horrible or awful about Driscoll's sermons, but not about him.  Let's just end this thread before it gets ugly - and we say some more less than gracious things about people.

For those of you who tried to actually give some insight into Driscoll's sermons, thank you. 

Posts 569
J. Morris | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 7:02 PM | Locked

Bill Gordon:
article by Baptist Press: http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30700 

 

Indifferent Yikes...

Posts 656
Jeremy | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2010 7:07 PM | Locked

J. Morris:

Bill Gordon:
article by Baptist Press: http://bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?id=30700 

 

Indifferent Yikes...

Nah. That article is not fair and balanced. "Driscoll is a five-point Calvinist whose often-disheveled appearance..." You lose credibility when you say stuff like that. 

 

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