Surprised by another L8 feature

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True North | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Mar 4 2020 9:44 AM

Funny how you see things for a long time but don't really 'see' them.

Case in point. I'm reading about cosmic geography and one of the foot notes references Paul Seely's article about Gen 1:6-8 in the WTJ vol. 53. https://ref.ly/logosres/zibbcot01?ref=Bible.Ge1.2&off=1284

Ordinarily I would have copied his name and run a search either in Journal collections or everything. However, opening both eyes this time I see you can high lite his name in the article in the WTJ and it will allow you to search his works only in the "series" of the WTJ. Sooo nice to know this!

And how long have I had Logos for??? Yikes.

Anyway for you newbies out there, take time to explore the Program. There's buried treasure in it.

mm.

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GaoLu | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 4 2020 11:00 PM

Yes

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James Johnson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 6:47 AM

For something so expensive you would think that they would give you free training on how to fully use the program.. nope, they expect you to pay for that too. 

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 6:50 AM

James Matthew Johnson:

For something so expensive you would think that they would give you free training on how to fully use the program.. nope, they expect you to pay for that too. 

Logos Pro 

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DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 7:36 AM

Jack Caviness:

James Matthew Johnson:

For something so expensive you would think that they would give you free training on how to fully use the program.. nope, they expect you to pay for that too. 

Logos Pro 

I agree, James has considerable access to free training. Certainly improved over the years.

But, just as an example, MM's discovery. I've no clue what he's talking about. I should. But I'm not going to dig through tons of training pages, to see what Logos can do these days. And the new feature threads every two years are quickly 'ambiguated' before role out.  You really need to know you need something, before you look for it. Ha.

"God will save his fallen angels and their broken wings He'll mend."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 11 2020 8:03 AM

Denise:
But, just as an example, MM's discovery. I've no clue what he's talking about. I should

For those interested, this was a feature introduced at the same time as the new left-to-right context menu in Logos 8.7

From the release notes at https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_8.7 

"The command options below now use buttons instead of lists to reduce space on screen:

  • Search – Provides access to a variety of search options. There is a new Series search option that will be available in resources that are in a series."
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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 11:40 AM

Jack Caviness:

James Matthew Johnson:

For something so expensive you would think that they would give you free training on how to fully use the program.. nope, they expect you to pay for that too. 

Logos Pro 

Logos Pro is basic training only otherwise if they provided training beyond basic for free why would the have an authorized third party trainer in the first place? It would not bode well for his business. What FL offers for free is good but it only takes you so far and then users have to consider paying and FL only direct you to the most expensive trainer of their product because they have an 'arrangement' with him. They don't advise customers there is a second, less expensive trainer  ( a former full time employee of FL no less) who actually provides more practical training options at a much cheaper price but as equally useful to the customer and would leave the customer with more money to put back into FL through additional resource purchases or to use in other ways to grow the Kingdom. 

Just my alternative take on the issue because there is always more than one way to look at a situation and I always look at it from the point of view as to whether FL is really doing the best they can by customers and my view in this case because of this 'exclusive arrangement' with their being only one 'authorized' trainer they are not doing the best by customers by not making them aware there are alternative options at a cheaper price with just as good content an too be honest a more practical offering of training topics covered. My advice is to search for LearnLogos using your favourite search engine.

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Jack Caviness | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 12:17 PM

DIsciple II:
Logos Pro is basic training only

The post to which I responded was by a first-time poster, so  assumed he was referring to basic training.

The rest of your post is very true and states the case very well. 

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DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 1:56 PM

Jack Caviness:

DIsciple II:
Logos Pro is basic training only

The post to which I responded was by a first-time poster, so  assumed he was referring to basic training.

The rest of your post is very true and states the case very well. 

Fair enough Jack. And I did not intend to devalue Logos Pro for what it is, it is a good launch pad into the software but training falls away after that.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 2:51 PM

May I bring some realism into this discussion? There is no such thing as the training you are requesting: comprehensive of all features, perfectly remembered by the user, recognized to fit the situation at hand, and  accurately updated by the user when something changes. Not only is there no such thing but with currently available brains and computers, it ain't gonna happen any time soon. Which means we as users need to concentrate on what is possible. For myself, that means that every now and then I take a feature and document it down to the last detail that I can find ... generating error reports and suggestions until you all are sick of seeing my name in the forums. This approach is not apt to be received enthusiastically across the broad spectrum of users. But there are some concrete things that we as users can do to help FL improve the situation.

  1. With the help card function recently added to Logos (not Verbum) very basic information is available. Most importantly they provide links to Logos Pro videos, web pages, and Logos Help. Watch and read even if you're sure you know it. Then use the forums to suggest improvements, point out the questions you found to be unanswered, note errors ... by taking a little time to provide feedback, you are helping thousands of people and possibly gaining a bit yourself.
  2. The limitation of the help card system is that it shows only the tools in isolation and doesn't led you to the right tool. Faithlife Assistant could easily be made to (a) provide definitions of the data that you see on your screen , (b) tell you what an action or option will do, and (c) be able to direct you to the right tool to achieve a task. But this requires that the users keep providing feedback on what questions they want the Assistant to answer and FL to respond to that feedback.
  3. Logos Pro has made some decent training courses for introductory uses (think Matthew 4 and Jonah 1). Be forceful in requesting more advanced versions e.g. writing a sermon, researching a topic ...
  4. Push for a few new tools such as (a) a vocabulary card system that teaches you to speak general Logosian which helps you formulate your questions better and makes it easier to find the right information in Help and Logos Pro (b) vocabulary card system that teaches you to speak the data and values of particular tools so that you actually know what you are looking at and what it means rather than guessing what the tool tip is trying to say.(c) some sort of a task decision tree to bring you to the tool(s) designed to meet you needs (d) completion of the documentation still outstanding.

There is a reason why just in time training has become popular - you get the training when you can actually use it and therefore are more apt to remember it . . . and you don't sit through reams of material you'll never use. Consider the features that show FL is aware and responding to the problem:

  • help cards
  • Faithlife Assistant
  • Bible browser
  • morphology document ...

We need to give them very precise feedback on what works, what's missing, what's a flop but would work if only, what's a complete miss. Think actionable item not general gripe.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Mar 12 2020 3:22 PM

MJ. Smith:
Be forceful in requesting more advanced versions e.g. writing a sermon, researching a topic ...

FYI - there is a series of 11 videos looking at some of the aspects of sermon prep / Bible study at https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360017433952-Logos-8-Sermon-and-Bible-Study-Prep-Series including 4 looking specifically at the Sermon Editor

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