Computer specs used @ Logos for large libraries
Does any body know what the specs are, of the computers, that they use at Logos, to run larger libraries? I'd be curious about this.
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As long as you have an SSD large enough for your library and everything else you'd need you'll be fine. Hard drive speed is the most critical factor for running Logos. There are other considerations if you are running lots of linked reports but for shear library size it's all about using an SSD.
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This is the base recommendation from Logos for peak use
https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007554992-Recommended-Hardware-and-Software
I used this in my own evaluation and decided to double the RAM to 32GB, pick a slightly more robust i9 processor and get more storage space since I have a lots of files besides a big Logos library. I do lots of other things on the computer, so my needs are more demanding. Logos loads very fast on this machine. The newer gen processors from Intel and AMD are even better. YMMV but you do not need a huge horsepower custom high end desktop, mine is a Dell XPS 15 laptop.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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In Nov 2018, I chose to invest $1500 in an MSI gaming laptop with a 6-core i7=8750H, 32Gb Ram, 1Tb NVMe SSD, 2 Tb HDD, nVidia GTX 1050 Ti with 4Gb. I figure it'll last me twice as long as an off-the-rack laptop, & in the interim I enjoy sub-second searches (7800 resources in library), under 20 minutes to re-index the entire library, & am able to continue working on anything else I want to while anything runs in the background.
The most I've ever seen this laptop bogged down was in rendering a 1-hour HD video I recorded, & even then I wouldn't have noticed anything going on in the background---just took much longer than usual (about 20 minutes) than I'm used to waiting to complete.
I didn't choose to invest in the fastest CPU, since (after 25 yr in IT before becoming a full time pastor) I didn't believe that to be a bottleneck for anything I'd be doing. (So far, I haven't regretted that.)
I figure a normal high end off-the-rack laptop usually runs ~ $1,000. By investing another $500, I think I've doubled normal usable lifespan & get much upgraded performance in the interim. I'd do it again...
For every component, I commend buying at the knee of the price performance curve. For every component, you can pay a small incremental price for a performance upgrade, till you get to some point--when the price starts increasing steeply. That's the knee...
Blessings on your decision.
Grace & Peace,
Bill
MSI GF63 8RD, I-7 8850H, 32GB RAM, 1TB SSD, 2TB HDD, NVIDIA GTX 1050Max
iPhone 12 Pro Max 512Gb
iPad 9th Gen iOS 15.6, 256GB0 -
Seven years ago I bought my current desktop. At that time it was aimed for professional computer graphics. The 512 GB SSD is becoming full with some 6000 items, but is has some other fillers, too.
https://www.logos.com/product/15513/cities-of-paul-images-and-interpretations-from-the-harvard-new-testament-and-archaeology-project seems to slow it down for a cup of coffee.
Also closing a complex panel takes time.
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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I reading the Logos 9 wish list post and noticed all the post about how slow the program loads...
I....
The main boss computer is a 27" 3.8 Ghz quad i5 iMac with 8gb of ram and a 2Tb ssd, my lap top is 2 Ghz i7 with 16Gb of ram and a 500gb SSD windows machine. The laptop sometimes slows down if it has to index new collections of books. Nothing slows the iMac down for very long. I asked the question, because I too got that minimum system requirements information a few years ago... and every computer I've bought since then... I made sure it had as much horsey power and memory as I could get... without going into gaming machine money.
The iMac I got because my wife uses Adobe Creative Suite, which can be enough to choke any computer. I've talked to a database engineer and he said the underlying database wasn't written to be as fast as it could be... but... if... your spending the kind of money , that really large resource collections require and your going to use it really hard... is it really unreasonable to expect to have to get a pretty muscular computer.
I mean even my little collection of 3400 books... cost 4 times... what the iMac cost.0 -
Paul Watson said:
Does any body know what the specs are, of the computers, that they use at Logos
[speculation: on]
They probably keep some computers with the minimum supported spec, just for testing. Their main drivers are probably souped up, all running off NVME SSDs at least 1TB in capacity.
[speculation: off]
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Paul Watson said:
Does any body know what the specs are, of the computers, that they use at Logos, to run larger libraries?
No, I don't know what the specs are of the computers they use at Faithlife.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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For what it's worth, I prefer to use a custom-built desktop system (even tho I own a Lenovo Yoga laptop). My preference for the custom desktop is because off-the-shelf units from system builders tend to be de-tuned to keep the heat and speeds lower for the sake of higher reliability (consequently, fewer service calls - i.e., lower cost to the manufacturer). I believe this de-tuning is particularly true with laptops. For example, the Lenovo has a locked down bios - you can adjust basic, inconsequential things like date, time, ports, etc. but you are not able to get to any speed/overclocking settings for the cpu or the memory or the buses.
If, however, you assemble your own desktop system using carefully chosen components from various component manufacturers, you'll find a completely open bios where you'll have a great deal of flexibility in setting it up. For example, the past few years I have preferred motherboards from ASRock since, not only is the bios completely accessible, but they have several pre-designed and tested overclocking modes available - just click on the speed/performance you desire and you're all set to go. Clarification: I am not some crazy, overclocking nut living in my parents' basement using liquid Nitrogen as a coolant ... I just want as much performance as I can reasonably get without unnecessarily driving up the cost of the system or jeopardizing the reliability.
I should also point out that, if you have a good idea of what components you want, and are a careful shopper, it's not difficult to build a very fast, high performance system at a price that is significantly less than a similarly equipped box from a system builder. Plus, once you get past the initial cost of such things as the case, power supply, memory, etc. you can periodically upgrade individual components in order to freshen the performance of your system (I'm thinking here particularly of the motherboard/cpu) - and it can be done for far less $$ than replacing the entire system - thus, you can potentially keep the same basic system going strong for years.
And, as a side note, if you are not a techno-geek, and building your own system sounds a bit daunting, well, there's always a 14 year old lurking around somewhere who could do it for you ... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Bottom line: IMO, best bang for the buck (not only for today but also for years into the future via select component upgrades) is a custom-built desktop system.
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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When I switched to PC from Mac, I had an i7 9570H, 16gb RAM, 1TB SSD, and an RTX 2060. The initial indexing took less than an hour for 4700 books. Indexing added material is pretty fast. Much faster than my Mac’s i5 and 8gb RAM
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
Not only do I like the idea... I went to school for electrical engineering...
I have a project to get done before that, but if rhis last for any length of time....
And a stimulus check is coming....
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Would a laptop with 10th Gen i7-10510U, 16gb Ram, 512gb ssd, NVIDIA® GeForce® MX250 with 2GB GDDR5 graphics memory...be a good computer for Logos? I'm upgrading from no graphics card, 8gb ram, older i5 processor.
Pastor, Mt. Leonard Baptist Church, SBC
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Jonathan Bradley said:
Would a laptop with 10th Gen i7-10510U, 16gb Ram, 512gb ssd, NVIDIA® GeForce® MX250 with 2GB GDDR5 graphics memory...be a good computer for Logos? I'm upgrading from no graphics card, 8gb ram, older i5 processor.
It has an SSD. It'll do fine.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Jonathan Bradley said:
Would a laptop with 10th Gen i7-10510U, 16gb Ram, 512gb ssd, NVIDIA® GeForce® MX250 with 2GB GDDR5 graphics memory...be a good computer for Logos?
Great performance using similar specs with no dedicated graphics card. I would think you would see great performance, as well.
•1 TB Intel® SSD + 32 GB Intel® Optane™ memory
•Intel® Core™ i7-1065G7+Intel® Iris® Plus Graphics+16 GB Memory
Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | 4 Portfolio | 5 Platinum | 6 Feature Crossgrade | 7 Essential | 8 M & W Platinum and Academic Professional | 9 Academic Professional and Messianic Jewish Diamond
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I do the occasional video editing for church. Right now, during The Great Quarantine of 2020, almost daily. But not usually that much.
Pastor, Mt. Leonard Baptist Church, SBC
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I have a mini panasonic notebook 0.8hz cpu, but I run logos 8 looks well.
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thats close to what I have, it may slow when indexing a lot of books, but the rest of the time you should be fine
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Reply in thread Logos 8 Mac System Recommendations (what you'd actually want as a user) => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/188994/1091934.aspx#1091934 includes:
Thankful for a friend helping me in early 2020 to buy a refurbished 2019 iMac 27" 5K having 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9 with 16 GB RAM, 1 TB SSD, & Radeon Pro 580x for $ 2,719 => https://www.apple.com/shop/product/GMVTMLL/A/Refurbished-27-inch-iMac-37GHz-6-core-Intel-Core-i5-with-Retina-5K-display plus an upgrade to 64 GB RAM with faster memory (CAS timing 15-17-17-37 instead of 19-19-19-43) that improved benchmark CPU scores by 5 %. But had no effect on rebuilding Logos indexes: took 2 hours 14 minutes to index Logos 8.12 Beta 2 having 1,010 Bible resources, 29,127 Library resources, and 33 Personal Books (verified Logos Indexer and macOS used all available memory during indexing)
Logos Help Center (LHC) has Recommended hardware article => https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007554992-Recommended-Hardware-and-Software that includes NVMe SSD (Blackmagic Disk Speed Test shows Read speed of 2,043.0 MB/sec and 1,565.2 MB/sec on 2019 iMac 27" 5K). Older Dell Inspiron 7720 laptop (2.3 GHz i7-3610QM) has a 512 GB Crucial SATA III SSD with Crystal Disk Mark showing Read range of 552.36 MB/sec (Sequential) to 405.91 MB/sec (Random) and Write range of 483.73 MB/sec (Sequential) to 355.07 MB/sec (Random) so takes noticeably longer than NVMe SSD. Processor benchmarks => https://browser.geekbench.com/processor-benchmarks shows Single Core of 1245 for 3.6 GHz Intel Core i9 (9th Generation) and 645 for 2.3 GHz Intel Core i7 (3rd Generation) so CPU in 2019 iMac should be nearly twice as fast as 2013 laptop. Bible indexing of one resource (Aeneid VII–XII, Appendix Vergiliana: Latin Text) took 4,319ms on iMac and 7,708ms on Dell laptop shows benchmark prediction of 8,337ms for Dell being too long. Single core CPU on iMac took 56 % of the time to do a task as Dell laptop. Bible Indexing took 18m 16.1s on iMac while Dell laptop took 32m 52.7s. Library indexing on iMac took 1h 54m 15s while Dell laptop took 2h 22m 32s. Personal Book indexing took 1m 46.3s on iMac while Dell laptop took 2m 5.2s. Overall IndexerProgram took 2h 14m 18s on iMac while Dell laptop took 3h 14m 39s. Impressed by indexing performance on 2013 laptop running 64 bit Windows 10 Pro 1909 (while wondering what indexing and other performance improvements are possible for 64 bit macOS 10.15.4 Catalina having newer & faster hardware).
Dell Inspiron 7720 has two drives internally: 512 GB SSD and Seagate 1 TB 5400 RPM Hard Drive (HD). Used 10/100 Mbps ethernet network connection to copy 94.7 GB of Resources to HD (took ~24 hours to xcopy 29,622 files) followed by using Scan command in Logos 8.12 to copy resource files from HD to SSD. During scan copying, Task Manager Performance showed HD was 93 % to 98 % busy while SSD was 0 % to 5 % busy (shows storage speed difference between SSD and HD).
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Thanks JRS. I just watched all three videos in this serious on how to build your own computer and it doesn't seem as easy as you make it out. https://youtu.be/WXwMbmhCQuY I am looking to get a custom built desktop, but I think I'll have the folks like OriginPC build it for me.
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Thanks JRS. I just watched all three videos in this serious on how to build your own computer and it doesn't seem as easy as you make it out. https://youtu.be/WXwMbmhCQuY I am looking to get a custom built desktop, but I think I'll have the folks like OriginPC build it for me.
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John Morgan said:
Thanks JRS. I just watched all three videos in this serious on how to build your own computer and it doesn't seem as easy as you make it out. https://youtu.be/WXwMbmhCQuY I am looking to get a custom built desktop, but I think I'll have the folks like OriginPC build it for me.
I am not techie but a year ago I built a custom pc for Logos. It was easy, fun and runs Logos like a dream
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Mike, glad to hear that. After watching the videos I worried that I would not be able to figure out the right configuration and how to upload the software. I was afraid I'd not get the right power source or right coolant. And when the guy started uploading all the software I had a hard time following him. I read a post on common mistakes with uploading that would prevent the software from functioning and how to fix them. That's when I got scared. It might seem easy to them, but it always seems easy to experts. I'm glad you were able to do it yourself.
Can you share what specs you purchased (e.g., CPU, memory, RAM etc.)?
Did you have difficulty uploading software etc?
Thanks!
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John Morgan said:
Thanks JRS. I just watched all three videos in this serious on how to build your own computer and it doesn't seem as easy as you make it out. https://youtu.be/WXwMbmhCQuY I am looking to get a custom built desktop, but I think I'll have the folks like OriginPC build it for me.
Having OriginPC build it for you is certainly understandable and sounds like a good solution.
My desktop specs [current]:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900k (base frequency boosted from 3.6 GHz to 4.5 GHz - super easy to do. This CPU is overkill for Logos but it sure makes it zip) CPU is cooled with a Corsair h100i water cooler [CPU upgraded in 2019, water cooler replaced at same time because the old one had started to leak after many years of service]
Motherboard: AsRock Taichi Z390 Ultimate [upgraded in 2019 with the CPU]
Memory: 32 GB Corsair Dominator @ 2.67 GHz [re-used in several systems from many years back - Note that ram speed doesn't affect system speed or Logos significantly so save $$ by purchasing lower speed ram]
Video Card: EVGA RTX 2070 [new in 2019, replaced older EVGA GTX 970 - this is overkill for Logos but the nVidia card helps a lot with other programs that I use]
SSD: Samsung 960 Pro 1TB [can't remember when I first obtained this ssd, but it is still adequate even tho it is "legacy"]
Power Supply: Corsair AX 850 [again, used in several builds from years ago]
Monitor: LG 32GK850F [relatively new (2018?) because I wanted/needed more real estate/viewing area (32" measured diagonally). I am not a gamer so no need for 4k, 3D, curved surface, super high refresh rates, etc. - just a good solid monitor)
Hope this helps.
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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John Morgan said:
I think I'll have the folks like OriginPC build it for me.
I was thinking the same thing when I contemplated getting a new machine. I decided to get another laptop, but a full-out desktop custom built is probably better for using multiple monitors and such. So far my i9 laptop has no problem whatsoever with a big library, so I don't know how much more performance a desktop would add to Logos. I'm spoiled enough at the moment. YMMV
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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JRS said:John Morgan said:
Thanks JRS. I just watched all three videos in this serious on how to build your own computer and it doesn't seem as easy as you make it out. https://youtu.be/WXwMbmhCQuY I am looking to get a custom built desktop, but I think I'll have the folks like OriginPC build it for me.
Having OriginPC build it for you is certainly understandable and sounds like a good solution.
My desktop specs [current]:
CPU: Intel Core i9 9900k (base frequency boosted from 3.6 GHz to 4.5 GHz - super easy to do. This CPU is overkill for Logos but it sure makes it zip) CPU is cooled with a Corsair h100i water cooler [CPU upgraded in 2019, water cooler replaced at same time because the old one had started to leak after many years of service]
Motherboard: AsRock Taichi Z390 Ultimate [upgraded in 2019 with the CPU]
Memory: 32 GB Corsair Dominator @ 2.67 GHz [re-used in several systems from many years back - Note that ram speed doesn't affect system speed or Logos significantly so save $$ by purchasing lower speed ram]
Video Card: EVGA RTX 2070 [new in 2019, replaced older EVGA GTX 970 - this is overkill for Logos but the nVidia card helps a lot with other programs that I use]
SSD: Samsung 960 Pro 1TB [can't remember when I first obtained this ssd, but it is still adequate even tho it is "legacy"]
Power Supply: Corsair AX 850 [again, used in several builds from years ago]
Monitor: LG 32GK850F [relatively new (2018?) because I wanted/needed more real estate/viewing area (32" measured diagonally). I am not a gamer so no need for 4k, 3D, curved surface, super high refresh rates, etc. - just a good solid monitor)
Hope this helps.
Thanks! That helps.
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Back on topic, computer parts have plateaued in performance, so you can run Logos at a fast clip with newish specifications. You have to look out for issues that could hold you back: disk access (SSD greatly preferred), disk space (at least 500G for future proofing), monitor (bigger, sharper, better).
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Trying to remember, but don't think I had Logos on the Tandy 1000. First version I had must have been on the Packard Bell 286. As I recall it was quite snappy.
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mab said:John Morgan said:
I think I'll have the folks like OriginPC build it for me.
I was thinking the same thing when I contemplated getting a new machine. I decided to get another laptop, but a full-out desktop custom built is probably better for using multiple monitors and such. So far my i9 laptop has no problem whatsoever with a big library, so I don't know how much more performance a desktop would add to Logos. I'm spoiled enough at the moment. YMMV
Thanks mab! That's helpful!
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You are a good husband. I buy stuff and my figures out that it's new several weeks if not months later
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[;)]