Logos Reader

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 11 2020 6:19 AM

Jeremy Hulsey:
I'm not really enthused at all about this. Logos is not Kindle and it's users didn't purchase the program for a reading library. This seems to me to be a waste of time and resources for a program that's devoted to Bible study and its related fields. I hope this is a short venture. 

I remain open to the idea for two reasons. 

  1. There are many resources which would be "fine" as FLEB titles, but having nicer formatting would be appreciated. Consider THIS title. FL sells it as a "Logos Edition," but why? The formatting is certainly better, but there is no other "logos" benefit. FL sells it for $17.99. The current (standard, non-sale) Kindle price is $11.99. If the pricing is able to be kept closer to the $12 price point, I would be glad. In any case, there is nothing lost with the new "reader edition" edition type. 
  2. There are many resources which take YEARS to come to Logos and really could benefit from a full "Logos Edition" treatment... but having the book in my Library NOW would be beneficial. If nothing else, think of the seminary student who has to choose between a much inferior Kindle edition of a brand new textbook or the print version. For many (many!) years, I have promoted an idea where people could pay up front for a pre-order Logos edition and get a FLEB title now. I see this in that fashion. 

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Mattillo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 11 2020 7:46 AM

JT (alabama24):

Jeremy Hulsey:
I'm not really enthused at all about this. Logos is not Kindle and it's users didn't purchase the program for a reading library. This seems to me to be a waste of time and resources for a program that's devoted to Bible study and its related fields. I hope this is a short venture. 

I remain open to the idea for two reasons. 

  1. There are many resources which would be "fine" as FLEB titles, but having nicer formatting would be appreciated. Consider THIS title. FL sells it as a "Logos Edition," but why? The formatting is certainly better, but there is no other "logos" benefit. FL sells it for $17.99. The current (standard, non-sale) Kindle price is $11.99. If the pricing is able to be kept closer to the $12 price point, I would be glad. In any case, there is nothing lost with the new "reader edition" edition type. 
  2. There are many resources which take YEARS to come to Logos and really could benefit from a full "Logos Edition" treatment... but having the book in my Library NOW would be beneficial. If nothing else, think of the seminary student who has to choose between a much inferior Kindle edition of a brand new textbook or the print version. For many (many!) years, I have promoted an idea where people could pay up front for a pre-order Logos edition and get a FLEB title now. I see this in that fashion. 

I agree and I wonder what will happen w/ FLEB.  Is FLEB an even lower standard than reader editions?  There are a few titles in there that the formatting is terrible but from what I understand that is a completely automated process.

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Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 11 2020 8:38 AM

Beloved Amodeo:

Will the adoption of this strategy make bringing to Logos much anticipated resources like the missing Baylor Handbook series more likely? This was promised to be in the works. Another want would be BAGD. And other unicorns such as the return to the catalogue of Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible and the abandoned project to translate Ceslas Spicq's The Epistle to the Hebrews.

Great question. I'm glad you raised it.

Most of the resources you mention are not in our format due to licensing issues rather than production costs.

None of those specific books would qualify for readers editions because they would benefit significantly from full markup/tagging. 

In theory, though, there may be books that have been on hold that could move forward.

For the immediate future, a majority of reader editions will focus on new books that wouldn't normally get produced if we were doing a full markup.

Does that help/make sense?

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Armin | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 11 2020 9:09 AM

Mattillo:

There are a few titles in there that the formatting is terrible but from what I understand that is a completely automated process.

I purchased a few eBooks from Logos where the formatting was so off that the resources essentially had no text.  "A Parent's Guide to the Bible" is the latest one of them. Even though the creation of this e-book might be a completely automated process, Logos still needs to have a brief glance at such resources. It does not take more than a few seconds to realize that there is something wrong with it.

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, May 11 2020 12:20 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Beloved Amodeo:

Will the adoption of this strategy make bringing to Logos much anticipated resources like the missing Baylor Handbook series more likely? This was promised to be in the works. Another want would be BAGD. And other unicorns such as the return to the catalogue of Tov's Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible and the abandoned project to translate Ceslas Spicq's The Epistle to the Hebrews.

Great question. I'm glad you raised it.

Most of the resources you mention are not in our format due to licensing issues rather than production costs.

None of those specific books would qualify for readers editions because they would benefit significantly from full markup/tagging. 

In theory, though, there may be books that have been on hold that could move forward.

For the immediate future, a majority of reader editions will focus on new books that wouldn't normally get produced if we were doing a full markup.

Does that help/make sense?

Thanks, Ben!

You amplify on what Bradley has said and answered what he left unanswered. I appreciate that. Of course you gather from my tone that I am more interested in the impact that Readers Editions will have on the production of Reference Editions. I'm hoping it will lead to a marked reduction the time it takes for these works to come to market. Nevertheless, I support this new venture and hope that it will have a positive impact overall. I'm projecting, but I gather Reader's Editions will have there own dedicated forum once released.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 12 2020 5:39 AM

Mattillo:
I agree and I wonder what will happen w/ FLEB

Nothing. FLEB titles are auto converted and have a different kind of licensing agreements between FL & Publishers. Some titles would not be available to us except for FLEB. 

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 12 2020 12:28 PM

JT (alabama24):

Mattillo:
I agree and I wonder what will happen w/ FLEB

Nothing. FLEB titles are auto converted and have a different kind of licensing agreements between FL & Publishers. Some titles would not be available to us except for FLEB. 

JT

I don't agree. This is a question I arrived at independently and discussed with my sales rep. He did not have the answer. I don't think you can dismiss this question with the answer "Nothing" because one of FL's motives for introducing the Reader category is to improve on the quality of some ebooks. I think this question should be answered by FL. Will the introduction of the Reader tend towards the disappearance of some, most or all FLEBs? Or will cost and market influences still prevail and FLEBs still be a viable category?

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 12 2020 8:15 PM

Beloved Amodeo:
Will the introduction of the Reader tend towards the disappearance of some, most or all FLEBs? Or will cost and market influences still prevail and FLEBs still be a viable category?

FL may or may not respond. They typically don't, but they have done so here. However, If they do respond I feel comfortable that my answer will stand. Amish romance novels will not become "Logos Reader" books. Some publishers have decided not to play with Logos, so Faithlife puts them into FLEB. 

Am I missing your point? 

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 12 2020 8:53 PM

JT (alabama24):
Am I missing your point?
No JT,

Not exactly, but you are blurring the edges. We both know that Amish Romance novels will never be Readers, but books by Rob Bell could make the cut. The overall catalogue is going to shift. Just how much is in the hands of Logos. This is my point and the question I would like a clear answer on.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 12 2020 9:08 PM

Beloved Amodeo:
This is my point and the question I would like a clear answer on.

To my mind, you are asking the impossible. I would expect the dividing line to develop slowly as FL evaluated the reception of the new option.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, May 12 2020 9:25 PM

MJ. Smith:

Beloved Amodeo:
This is my point and the question I would like a clear answer on.

To my mind, you are asking the impossible. I would expect the dividing line to develop slowly as FL evaluated the reception of the new option.

MJ,

I respect this response. I'm not asking for quantification; I'm more interested in intent. This I believe has an answer. Now.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2020 9:34 AM

Bump to Ben, Bradley or Phil. Come on FL team both JT and MJ are of the opinion that you will not respond to the toughest questions. Prove them wrong. I'm not in fear of your answer whether it be a dismissal, guess, or revealing conjecture.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

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Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2020 11:44 AM

Beloved Amodeo:

Bump to Ben, Bradley or Phil. Come on FL team both JT and MJ are of the opinion that you will not respond to the toughest questions. Prove them wrong. I'm not in fear of your answer whether it be a dismissal, guess, or revealing conjecture.

We have no plans to get rid of FL Ebooks. It will continue to house many books that would never be worth investing in for Logos (reader edition or otherwise). In fact, we would like to grow our offering of FL ebooks.

That said, there will be books that were ebooks that will be made Logos reader editions. I don't know how many. We don't have a specific plan to work through the backlist content.

Does that get at your question?

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2020 12:30 PM

Jan Krohn:

What's the difference between Logos Research and Logos Reader?

Surprised no one has given the simple answer.

7,418.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2020 2:02 PM

Doc B:
Surprised no one has given the simple answer.

How simple did you want:

  • e-Book - automated process only
  • Logos Reader - basic Logos coding but without the more manual elements such as labels and time line
  • Logos Research - the "every thing bagel" version

At least that's what I thought has been said.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2020 2:11 PM

MJ. Smith:
How simple did you want:

It was a math joke. 

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2020 2:16 PM

Got it - sorry I'm on my first cup of coffeeEmbarrassed

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, May 13 2020 2:34 PM

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife):

Beloved Amodeo:

Bump to Ben, Bradley or Phil. Come on FL team both JT and MJ are of the opinion that you will not respond to the toughest questions. Prove them wrong. I'm not in fear of your answer whether it be a dismissal, guess, or revealing conjecture.

We have no plans to get rid of FL Ebooks. It will continue to house many books that would never be worth investing in for Logos (reader edition or otherwise). In fact, we would like to grow our offering of FL ebooks.

That said, there will be books that were ebooks that will be made Logos reader editions. I don't know how many. We don't have a specific plan to work through the backlist content.

Does that get at your question?]

Answered masterfully. Thank you.

My, this discussion has grown. Doc B, hilariousBig Smile

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

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JT (alabama24) | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, May 14 2020 5:19 AM

:)

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