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This post has 146 Replies | 15 Followers

Posts 7
Bryan Geary | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Dec 6 2020 8:02 AM

Happy to see the work being done!

Question: Would it be possible to get a fourth status in the migration list - something that sits between In Progress and Complete to indicate which resources are in EBook format but not yet indexed?

Posts 34
Jeff Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 7:21 PM

I don't pretend to be a programmer, nor do I know anything about migrating ebooks from one platform to another. What I do know is that if you ordered something from Amazon, and they sent you a broken item, no one would be happy to get it. You would be even more unhappy upon learning that Amazon KNEW the item was completely broken and unusable but sent it to you anyway.

Your software is glitchy, difficult to use, and completely disappointing compared to WordSearch. Unfortunately, the library I now own with WS is all I will ever have. You need to fix your imports and smooth the rough edges on your existing platform. It is horrendous!

Posts 5362
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 7:33 PM

Jeff Frazier:
I don't pretend to be a programmer, nor do I know anything about migrating ebooks from one platform to another. What I do know is that if you ordered something from Amazon, and they sent you a broken item, no one would be happy to get it. You would be even more unhappy upon learning that Amazon KNEW the item was completely broken and unusable but sent it to you anyway.

But if Amazon sold you a Kindle book, and then later Amazon was going ought of business so Barnes & Noble bought Amazon and sent you a free Nook edition of the same book, you'd probably be pleased to get a free Nook book.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Jeff Frazier:
Your software is glitchy, difficult to use, and completely disappointing compared to WordSearch. Unfortunately, the library I now own with WS is all I will ever have. You need to fix your imports and smooth the rough edges on your existing platform. It is horrendous!

I suggest starting a new thread or two in order to set out the difficulties/problems/bugs you're finding in/with Logos so that they can be properly addressed.

Posts 34
Jeff Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 7:43 PM

I have made numerous attempts to resolve this issue to no avail, including contacting CS, who basically told me that the software was broken and was deliberately sent to customers that way. And no, it isn't a matter of perspective. I got nothing for free. I paid for the software that I am now using. When Logos took ownership of former WS products, they assumed all of the legal liabilities and responsbilities that go along with it. By doing what they have done, they have demonstrated to all former WS customers that they are incapable of doing a proper job of providing a service that many patrons spent hundreds, even thousands of dollars collecting. Now, our collections are worthless, and the "upgraded" software doesn't work.  

Posts 5362
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 7:52 PM

Jeff Frazier:
I have made numerous attempts to resolve this issue to no avail, including contacting CS, who basically told me that the software was broken and was deliberately sent to customers that way.

Have you made any attempts to resolve the issue by starting a thread about it in the forums? It's often the case that people who do so get farther that way. These forums are full of people who know Logos very, very well (much better than I do). Sometimes CS has actually suggested that people post on the forums in order to get the help they need. Strange, perhaps, but true.

Jeff Frazier:
And no, it isn't a matter of perspective. I got nothing for free. I paid for the software that I am now using.

Did you pay for Logos? If not, you got Logos for free. For Wordsearch, you paid.

Jeff Frazier:
When Logos took ownership of former WS products, they assumed all of the legal liabilities and responsbilities that go along with it.

Yes.

None of Faithlife's legal liabilities or responsibilities include providing you with anything other than what you paid for: the Wordsearch software and book/resource licenses that you still have.

Jeff Frazier:
By doing what they have done, they have demonstrated to all former WS customers that they are incapable of doing a proper job of providing a service that many patrons spent hundreds, even thousands of dollars collecting.

There are a number of new-to-Logos former-Wordsearch posters on these forums who report otherwise.

Jeff Frazier:
Now, our collections are worthless, and the "upgraded" software doesn't work.  

No, they aren't, and, for the most part, yes, it does. For the rest, I reiterate my recommendation to start a new thread in order to address that.

Posts 34
Jeff Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 9:19 PM

Start a thread? Are you serious? What good would it do me? Just the little bit of time I’ve wasted here has garnered me nothing but the ire of those who only want to rip up anyone who dares to raise an issue he or she has been dealing with. Thanks, but I think I’ll pass on that on that idea. On the other hand, I think that I will simply keep my old WordSearch program and use it till it falls apart. Maybe by then, Tecarta or some other bible-software company will emerge as a competitor to Logos and its slow, clunky software.

Posts 32532
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 25 2021 9:42 PM

Jeff Frazier:
Your software is glitchy, difficult to use, and completely disappointing compared to WordSearch. Unfortunately, the library I now own with WS is all I will ever have. You need to fix your imports and smooth the rough edges on your existing platform. It is horrendous!

Unfortunately for you, Logos managed to have the support of a sufficient number of satisfied users to be in the position to buy out the failing WordSearch.

Jeff Frazier:

I have made numerous attempts to resolve this issue to no avail, including contacting CS, who basically told me that the software was broken and was deliberately sent to customers that way. And no, it isn't a matter of perspective. I got nothing for free. I paid for the software that I am now using. When Logos took ownership of former WS products, they assumed all of the legal liabilities and responsbilities that go along with it. By doing what they have done, they have demonstrated to all former WS customers that they are incapable of doing a proper job of providing a service that many patrons spent hundreds, even thousands of dollars collecting. Now, our collections are worthless, and the "upgraded" software doesn't work. 

You apparently have knowledge of the purchase contract that I do not have. I assumed that Faithlife purchased the rights to the resources and the customer list but not the software.

Jeff Frazier:
Start a thread? Are you serious? What good would it do me? Just the little bit of time I’ve wasted here has garnered me nothing but the ire of those who only want to rip up anyone who dares to raise an issue he or she has been dealing with.

If you want help, the way to do it is to start a thread and actually state what your issues are. The forum is for fellow users. If you wish to complain about FL, you are using the wrong means to reach them. Your posts may or may not be seen by any FL personnel, let alone the right FL personnel.

Since I can't find where you describe "this issue", unless the issue is that it is taking longer than originally expect to get resources all converted to full functionality, I am left in the frustrating position of not being able to help you - the whole purpose of the forums. I will grant you that there are several long-standing bugs in the system that Faithlife is aware of but have not repaired because they affect few people in specific situations. But I would be startled if you managed to find one of these and found it a showstopper. Why don't you tell us what the problem is so that actual, ordinary users can tell you how we work with it?

Jeff Frazier:
On the other hand, I think that I will simply keep my old WordSearch program and use it till it falls apart.

Sounds like a good plan. However, when it fails remember that your resources are still available to you through the Logos program. And a large community of users of Logos are available in the forums ready to help you on specific problems. Tell us what is wrong and we'll tell you how to fix or use it.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 369
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 11:10 AM

Jeff Frazier:

Start a thread? Are you serious? What good would it do me? Just the little bit of time I’ve wasted here has garnered me nothing but the ire of those who only want to rip up anyone who dares to raise an issue he or she has been dealing with. Thanks, but I think I’ll pass on that on that idea. On the other hand, I think that I will simply keep my old WordSearch program and use it till it falls apart. Maybe by then, Tecarta or some other bible-software company will emerge as a competitor to Logos and its slow, clunky software.

Jeff Frazier --- I'm sorry your having issues. I am a WS user myself, loved WS and was happy with it. When Logos took over, I had issues... I just couldn't get my mind set that I had to change software. WS was comfortable, still is, I had it for years... knew it's quirks so to speak. 

But I found with me, that my mind was the biggest obstacle I had to overcome to learn the power of Logos. Once I made up my mind I was going to learn Logos, things began to come around. 

I would suggest this....  look into spending a part of the day looking at the instructional videos in Logos, there are lots of them and they are only around 30 minutes long. Read through some of the forums and look at how customers solve the problems they have. And most of all, be patient. There's lot going on in Logos and I have come to realize the Logos team is trying to help their customers to the best they can.  And I believe, once you get past the "learning curve" you will find that Logos is more powerful and more a help in making lessons from the Bible as I have. I pray it be so for you.

I do not have all my WS library in Logos yet... but I believe Logos is diligently working on it and sooooon... it will happen. Until then, I will continue to use WS and Logos to have all my library to help me with my studies, lesson making and such. 

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 34
Jeff Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 2:42 PM

If CS isn't the correct means by which to resolve issues, then why does Logos bother having them? In the 52 years I've been alive, I've never heard of anything like that. Besides, others have complained about the same issue, and they too simply receive useless feedback from fanboys who aren't here to help but to question the legitimacy of their problem. 

Logos will not stay in business for very long if their current team of software engineers are permitted to continue importing resources that don't work. NOBODY wants to use something that is broken. I think that you confuse past success with future success. Once upon a time, AOL, Nextel, and MySpace were all successful businesses that failed to keep up with the times, and now they're either bankrupt or owned by someone else who have all but dismantled their former business models. You mentioned WordSearch. If people were dissatisfied with them, how much more will they be with Logos making what they had completely unusable?

I wish them luck. They'll need it.

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 2:51 PM

Hi Jeff

I feel really bad that you're having such a hard time with this.  I am a former WS user.  I was buying books from both sources. WS was often cheaper.  But I was using Logos more.  

I was happy to see them merge, though I wasn't happy for the WS people who lost their jobs.  I liked some things about WS better, but I thought I could more with Logos, plus they had more books.  I see I still have about a thousand books are not fully integrated into Logos.  They are available as ebooks.  I haven't tried to figure out if they are available in searches.  

So what do you have now in terms of products and software?

Larry

Posts 34
Jeff Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 2:52 PM

Thank you for at least trying to be helpful. However, the issue I'm having is the resources imported to Logos from WS are all broken. Either they don't work, or their functionality is extremely poor compared to WS. For example, my Dake commentary was split into three resources, and none of them work. All of them are missing books, table of contents, and they're impossible to navigate.

My copy of Dispensational Truth by Clarence Larkin works, but it too was split into two resources. None of Larkin's many charts are linked to the text from which they were gleaned. Therefore, if I want to view the related drawing, I have to navigate through a slideshow of images that link back to nothing. In WS, the resource had the drawings and charts embedded into the text, just like the actual book did.

Again, thank you for trying to be helpful, but the only thing that will help is for someone at Logos to fix those books. Until then, I will not be using their product.

Posts 34
Jeff Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 2:54 PM

My Dake commentary was split into three resources, and none of them work. All of them are missing books, table of contents, and they're impossible to navigate.

My copy of Dispensational Truth by Clarence Larkin works, but it too was split into two resources. None of Larkin's many charts are linked to the text from which they were gleaned. Therefore, if I want to view the related drawing, I have to navigate through a slideshow of images that link back to nothing. In WS, the resource had the drawings and charts embedded into the text, just like the actual book did.

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 2:58 PM

These are probably not completed yet.  Like I said, I have about a thousand WS books in that category.

Open one of those books.  In the upper right hand corner of the panel are three dots.  Click on them, and then click information in the menu.

You will see the book title and a picture to the left.  Under the picture, if the book is fully integrated into Logos, it will say Logos Research.  I'll bet the books you are mentioning will say ebook or something like that.  That means they are still working on them.  It's taking them a lot longer than they hoped.  They still have their regular work they're working on.  

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 3:01 PM

I have two Dake's books in my library.  The annotated reference Bible and Dake's topics.  In the library, if you look at the far right, it will say editions.  These are both ebooks.  That means they are not done with them.  It's unfortunate that  your favorite books are some of those they haven't got to yet.  

What kind of a library do you have?  Did you get any Logos packages when you got into Logos?

Posts 34
Jeff Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 3:04 PM

Here's the good that a thread on this topic does:

Dake topics incomplete - Faithlife Forums (logos.com)

This was reported last October, and nobody has done anything about it. CS told me that Logos knows about this and "they're working on it." They've been supposedly doing so for months now. 

One thing I will agree with you about: the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I plan on being as vocal as I can about this until they either fix it or ban me from the forums. At this point, I don't really care which one happens.

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 3:04 PM

Somewhere, I'm not sure where, though you can probably just call them.  They were asking people to tell them which books they really wanted to see done quicker.  They might still be taking those.  You can post that probably in this thread or maybe just call cs.  If you still want to talk to them.

Posts 1100
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 3:08 PM

You're angry and frustrated.  I've been there.  Logos is a good program, but you're still dealing with human beings.  They had thousands of new books all at once to try to incorporate into their system.  Plus they have all their own new books.  They must be swamped.  I would say, be patient.  Discover what all Logos has here.  You're 52,  You probably have many years ahead of you.  You're be glad you're here.

I have dinner now

Posts 34
Jeff Frazier | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 3:09 PM

I have over 250 books from my old WS library. I was offered, like everyone else, Logos 8. I had to have a CS rep load it onto my computer because it wouldn't work otherwise. So, "ebook" in Logospeak means doesn't work right yet? Even the web version doesn't work.

Posts 113
Justin Gatlin | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 3:16 PM

Jeff Frazier:

I have over 250 books from my old WS library. I was offered, like everyone else, Logos 8. I had to have a CS rep load it onto my computer because it wouldn't work otherwise. So, "ebook" in Logospeak means doesn't work right yet? Even the web version doesn't work.

An ebook means that they just copied the text from the Wordsearch file so you can open and read it like a Kindle book. It means they wanted Wordsearch users to have access to as much of their library as possible while they added all of the stuff beneath the surface that makes Logos so much more powerful than Wordsearch was. So you are getting your books in two stages: automated transfer to Logos and manual, refined transfer to Logos. I am sure that going that route upset some people and pleased others. I am sorry that it has been so frustrating for you and hope you get the resources you need quickly.

Posts 32532
Forum MVP
MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 26 2021 3:18 PM

Jeff Frazier:
So, "ebook" in Logospeak means doesn't work right yet?

No, it means that it has minimal, automated tagging and therefore does not support features that require additional FL tagging. Different resources take different types of tagging with different amounts of automated vs. manual effort. Therefore, when the resources will become Logos Research Editions is not predictable to us as users. Or put another way, this is another case where software teaches us the virtue of patience.

In what sense doesn't the web app work? It is more restricted in its functions than the desktop.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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