[Suggestion] Matching WORDsearch Crossgrade by a competitor

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Sep 25 2020 6:58 PM

(It is only a suggestion.)

A Logos competitor is offering former WORDsearch users for a crossgrade deal that is selling at cost. It is quite attractive as this might gives them many extra resources they didn't even own in WORDsearch and hence Logos after migration.

Perhaps Logos can offer something similar to https://www.logos.com/bibleworks or even better to match something like the WORDsearch crossgrade offer there.

I'm not trying to promote or link to competitors but if it is deemed as against the forum guideline please feel free to delete it.

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Mark Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 25 2020 7:09 PM

Kolen Cheung:
A Logos competitor is offering former WORDsearch users for a crossgrade deal that is selling at cost. It is quite attractive as this might gives them many extra resources they didn't even own in WORDsearch and hence Logos after migration.

But they are not giving you your Wordsearch resources. So you either take Logos' free offer and keep all your Bible study in one place or you have the option of dividing your study between Logos and the other software or else abandoning Logos and rebuilding ($$$) your library in that other software. You'll note in the wording that goes with this offer they mention helping with the 'rebuilding' of one's library. In Logos there is no rebuilding.

I don't see the benefit to Logos to do this. They are already giving you free conversion of your WS resources which this other company is not. The competition is trying to get former WS owners to switch and rebuild their libraries with their versions of those resources. Logos is giving WS users a chance to keep their resources and build on their platform. 

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 25 2020 8:54 PM

Mark Smith:

Kolen Cheung:
A Logos competitor is offering former WORDsearch users for a crossgrade deal that is selling at cost. It is quite attractive as this might gives them many extra resources they didn't even own in WORDsearch and hence Logos after migration.

But they are not giving you your Wordsearch resources. So you either take Logos' free offer and keep all your Bible study in one place or you have the option of dividing your study between Logos and the other software or else abandoning Logos and rebuilding ($$$) your library in that other software. You'll note in the wording that goes with this offer they mention helping with the 'rebuilding' of one's library. In Logos there is no rebuilding.

I don't see the benefit to Logos to do this. They are already giving you free conversion of your WS resources which this other company is not. The competition is trying to get former WS owners to switch and rebuild their libraries with their versions of those resources. Logos is giving WS users a chance to keep their resources and build on their platform. 

I agree. And Logos doesn't really need to do this. Hence a suggestion only.

You assume the scenario that rebuilding the library is more expensive to them. But what I said (and also true to me) is that the offer is a great deal to obtain new titles that one might not already have in WORDsearch.

For those users that their current WORDsearch library is inferior to what is offered by the competitor, they can choose to stay in Logos with all their existing titles, or abandon what they already have and pay a small price to have a better set.

Better yet, they got to keep both and don't need to abandon anything.

Again, it is just a suggestion. Both of these scenarios should be considered. I will be happy if Logos can give existing WORDsearch users extra incentive to pay for something more at a discount. I guess put it another way, Logos already give existing WORDsearch users to obtain what they already have for free. That's very attractive. But if they give them another very attractive option to spend money then that will be greater.

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Leo Wee Fah | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Sep 25 2020 9:26 PM

Accordance is blessing those Wordsearch users for crossover with the condition:

"Accordingly, I agree not to sell, donate, give away, or otherwise transfer to another individual, the “original” software and products, being upgraded now to use for my own personal benefit on a computer which I own. "

Over here, Logos has blessed them with free migration to work seamlessly in Logos ecosystem..... and, many new resources (eg B&H, CBL etc) for the rest of us to purchase by the end of this year! That is GREAT NEWS, and may be a Christmas Sales..?? Wink

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 1:02 AM

i think you should avoid calling out the name explicitly.

if you go to their forum, you’ll see there’s discussion on that. Obviously they want to avoid people taking advantage of this deal to resell to make money.

Any of their cross grade offer has similar term. say if I own a certain collection on Logos, there‘s a special pricing for people to buy the same content in their software. This is  intended for migration only. Obviously someone can think one can buy the same collection in that software and sell it for profit. So there’s a term there for you to agree not to do that.

ie it is a way for you to have easy access for the same content on another platform, not to have a 2nd copy to resell. I hope it makes sense to you.

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Leo Wee Fah | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 1:10 AM

My apologies.. I was just thinking of how good Faithlife is to all.

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 1:18 AM

I agree Logos is very good. But their license transfer has a restriction as well. As long as any one of your title is from an academic discount, you cannot sell to someone who are not eligible for academic discounts. This might not be a problem for many people like me, but can be controversial to some. (People did complain about it and advised against building up your library with any academic discount.)

but the restriction is there for the same reason, just to avoid people abusing the system. The CEO from Logos has spoken about examples of abuses that is really something no one would would expect from buying a Bible software but i guess it is in human’s sinful nature...

anyway, don’t take this as anti-logos, rather, as something Logos can do to “steal the show back” so to speak.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 2:06 AM

Kolen Cheung:
i think you should avoid calling out the name explicitly.

Why? My understanding is in the Logos forum provided you do not link or promote the competitors like Accordance or Olivetree that is fine.

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 6:09 AM

Because walking the fine line is difficult. What defines promoting? one can choose to be very close to this line and not cross it, and I chose to get as far away from that line and to the point only.

but every time I tried to be subtle and didn’t name a competitor some smart guy will auto replace it be calling out the name. I guess it is just me but I feel that it is quite rude. Culture difference may be.

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Ted Hans | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 11:09 AM

Kolen Cheung:
but every time I tried to be subtle and didn’t name a competitor some smart guy will auto replace it be calling out the name. I guess it is just me but I feel that it is quite rude. Culture difference may be.

Thanks for giving me an insight to where you are coming from. Much appreciated and all the best.YesCool

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 4:22 PM

Kolen Cheung:
I agree Logos is very good. But their license transfer has a restriction as well. As long as any one of your title is from an academic discount, you cannot sell to someone who are not eligible for academic discounts. This might not be a problem for many people like me, but can be controversial to some. (People did complain about it and advised against building up your library with any academic discount.)

Dynamic pricing of Faithlife upgrades has challenges for transferring individual resource(s). Thread => Open letter to Bob: Please optimize the license transfer process discussion has an example scenario => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/127656/830909.aspx#830909

Transferring (or bequeathing) an entire library is doable.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Sep 26 2020 4:32 PM

I’m not taking about dynamic pricing. But the example there has the same point. It is the fact that dynamic pricing will entangle your library into a big inseparable lump.

You can think of your library as a network of nodes And links. Each resource is a node. If 2 resources belong to the same collection, they shared a link. Then you can ask how many isolated networks are in your library.

I bet in my library for those resources I paid, there’s a big network, and then a few isolated islands such as those from Zondervan. Now the biggest network in my library has academic discount and resources, so when I want to sell it, the whole thing has to be transferred to another who’s eligible too.

worst yet, it is totally not transparent. In fact I don’t know how my library came to be already. given a resource I cannot tell you how I obtained it. It is a mess.

anyway, back to this post, the original complaint is about how non-transferable the competitor’s cross grade is, and the logos example above is just to point out that Logos also has restriction and they are in place for a reason. How imperfect the restriction is probably is beyond the scope of this discussion.

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Kolen Cheung | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Oct 6 2020 8:49 PM

My personal choice on the competitor's offer has an interesting turn. I was quite tempted to buy that from the competitor as it will give me access to ICC NT and Complete Biblical Library for $200, plus a ton of things I already have in Logos.

The final deciding moment is when I ask, giving the same $200, what would I get from Logos. Eventually I bought the Logos 8 Academic Professional and Timeline Collection which gives me access to TDOT, ICC OT&NT, ISBE, etc. for ~$270 after dynamic pricing.

It is a bit sad as I always wanted to explore the competitor's software too to compare and perhaps have the best of both world. But the network effect is big—as long as one invested in a platform it is very difficult to migrate. The competitor's deal for WORDsearch users is a very great deal. But if one is too deep into the Logos ecosystem then that price might buy you much more within the same ecosystem.

But I'm not too sad, because Logos is not bad at all.

It will still be great if Logos provide some special package for WORDsearch users though. Imagine that for me, even if Logos didn't give me any WORDsearch specific offer I'm spending more on it because of this deal (from the competitor), how much more likely people are going to spend more on Logos in addition to those they get for free from the migration. My 2 cents though.

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