Need help writing a syntax search

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Posted: Mon, Nov 30 2020 8:40 PM

I'm looking for help with a search I'd like to save so I can call it up as needed. I'm not certain but I think a syntax search is the best route. I'm not only not an expert on syntax searches, I doubt I'd qualify for a free copy of "Syntax Searches for Dummies."

I've been working on a project I'm calling "Theology of Memory." What I'm looking for is a search, OT and NT, that will find every occurrence of the imperative commanding one to remember.  It can either be in the positive ('remember...') or in the negative ('do not forget...'). It may also have other constructions such as euphemisms ('bind to your forehead' or 'written on your heart'). I know I can use senses (L-N stuff) in the NT but have no idea how to attack senses in the OT...I don't know aleph from the proverbial fish with a bicycle.

All jocularity aside, the emphasis in the Bible on memory is astounding, and it has incredible application in life (think about how to handle a lifelong saint who because of dementia can no longer remember their faith).

If anyone can get me started, I'd be grateful. If you can get me finished, I'll dance at your wedding. (OK, sorry about the threat...I'm a Baptist and don't know how to dance.)

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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Graham Criddle | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Nov 30 2020 11:19 PM

Doc B:
I know I can use senses (L-N stuff) in the NT but have no idea how to attack senses in the OT...I don't know aleph from the proverbial fish with a bicycle.

Actually sense searching could be helpful here - it covers both the OT and NT and doesn't rely on a knowledge of original languages.

As you can see from the Bible Sense Lexicon they are a range of options for to forget

You can run that search from the BSL, and then add other sense options to the search string

To see what options, there are you can use the search autocomplete feature

That should get you started - and you can do something similar for to remember

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Doc B | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2020 7:31 AM

Thanks for the start, Graham.

Additional ideas are welcome as well...I'd like to have several options.

My thanks to the various MVPs. Without them Logos would have died early. They were the only real help available.

Faithlife Corp. owes the MVPs free resources for life.

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John Fidel | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2020 7:59 AM

Another idea would be to open the Bible Browser from tools, select Sentence Types: Imperative and then type remember in the find box and look at the various senses. Select the ones you want to see the verses and then use them in a search similar to what Graham provided.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2020 8:37 AM

Doc B:
I've been working on a project I'm calling "Theology of Memory."

Search suggestion looks for hierarchy of senses intersecting preaching themes (pericopes), which has many OT & NT results:

(<Sense reminder> OR <Sense to think (reason)> OR <Sense to forget (suppress)>) INTERSECTS  ({Section <PreachingTheme Memorial Day>} OR  {Section <PreachingTheme Obedience and Disobedience>})

Keep Smiling Smile

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Gregory Lawhorn | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Dec 1 2020 4:57 PM

I'd love to learn more about searching, but it's hard to find any practical help on it. Is there a source that goes through a lot of details on how to form and conduct more complicated searches?

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 12:05 AM

Gregory Lawhorn:

I'd love to learn more about searching, but it's hard to find any practical help on it. Is there a source that goes through a lot of details on how to form and conduct more complicated searches?

Have you taken a look at MJ Smith's 'Verbum Tip' series of posts?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 2 2020 12:05 AM

Gregory Lawhorn:

I'd love to learn more about searching, but it's hard to find any practical help on it. Is there a source that goes through a lot of details on how to form and conduct more complicated searches?

Have you taken a look at MJ Smith's 'Verbum Tip' series of posts?

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2020 2:24 PM

Gregory Lawhorn:

I'd love to learn more about searching, but it's hard to find any practical help on it. Is there a source that goes through a lot of details on how to form and conduct more complicated searches?

The Search Help and Detailed Search Help wikis will show the components of Advanced Datatype Searching and provide the operators to combine them e.g. OR, AND, AND NOT, NEAR, INTERSECTS, WITHIN, but stringing them together like KS4J's search (<Sense reminder> OR <Sense to think (reason)> OR <Sense to forget (suppress)>) INTERSECTS  ({Section <PreachingTheme Memorial Day>} OR  {Section <PreachingTheme Obedience and Disobedience>}) does not come easily.

In its simple form it is an (x) INTERSECTS (y) search, because one is looking for x and y that intersect anywhere e.g. "a complex phrase" INTERSECTS with "in this complex phrase is meaning" because of the last two words , but it is not WITHIN that second phrase. So you have to decide between WITHIN and INTERSECTS. (<Sense reminder> OR <Sense to think (reason)> OR <Sense to forget (suppress)>) is the x term as the parentheses links the three <Sense> words together and the OR says you want a match from at least one of those words (or phrases). ({Section <PreachingTheme Memorial Day>} OR  {Section <PreachingTheme Obedience and Disobedience>}) is the y term, again with parentheses clarifying that the two {Section} phrases are to be treated as a single (complex) term. So you want at least one of the <Sense> words to intersect with at least one of the {Section} phrases. 

The hard part is knowing whether Preaching Themes or another datatype will contain "every occurrence of the imperative commanding one to remember". The imperative are the <Sense> words chosen. I would start with a search for remember and right click the results that look like commandments. Looking down the list of datatypes on the left hand side, I find Obligative: Directive Speech Acts as well as Informative: Assertive Speech Acts. Select a Search from the other side. A quick look at search results for Informative: Assertive Speech Acts leads me to the conclusion that Obligative: is the way to go.  Consequently, my search would be (<Sense reminder> OR <Sense to think (reason)> OR <Sense to forget (suppress)>) INTERSECTS {Section <SpeechAct = Oblig: Direct>}

From that same search for remember,  I find Sense to remember and respond in the right-click Context menu, so I would add <Sense = to remember and respond> to the Search!

Now the issue becomes which is the better approach? Preaching Themes or Speech Acts? Or a simple search for remember OR "not forget"!?

Dave
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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2020 7:07 PM

Dave Hooton:
The hard part is knowing whether Preaching Themes or another datatype will contain "every occurrence of the imperative commanding one to remember".

Another datatype is Label so can search for the Commands from God:

({Speaker <Person God>} OR {Speaker <Person Jesus>} OR {Speaker <Person Holy Spirit>}) INTERSECTS {Label Command} 

Dave Hooton:
From that same search for remember,  I find Sense to remember and respond in the right-click Context menu, so I would add <Sense = to remember and respond> to the Search!

<Sense to interact> hierarchy includes child <Sense = to remember and respond> and grandchild <Sense = to remember and mention>

Command Label search could be refined for hierarchy of Sense words (not the absence of = causes word hierarchy to be searched)

(<Sense reminder> OR <Sense to think (reason)> OR <Sense to forget (suppress)> OR <Sense to interact> OR <Sense to control>) INTERSECTS ({Speaker <Person God>} OR {Speaker <Person Jesus>} OR {Speaker <Person Holy Spirit>}) INTERSECTS {Label Command}

Note: may want to add/refine Sense(s) for desired subset of God's Commanding Words.

Dave Hooton:
Now the issue becomes which is the better approach? Preaching Themes or Speech Acts? Or a simple search for remember OR "not forget"!?

Simple search is useful as a starting point so can use Right Click OR Tools => Information to see how search can be refined/expanded.

Keep Smiling Smile

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Dave Hooton | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Dec 4 2020 11:46 PM

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :):

Dave Hooton:
Now the issue becomes which is the better approach? Preaching Themes or Speech Acts? Or a simple search for remember OR "not forget"!?

Simple search is useful as a starting point so can use Right Click OR Tools => Information to see how search can be refined/expanded.

Yes. That is the approach to Syntax Search as well, so that you know whether your complex Search is working.

Dave
===

Windows 10 & Android 8

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