Would be nice to have ranking next to the commentaries

When I open Passage Guide, thanks to Matt Barnes, the commentaries are grouped in a logical order (I don’t have L9 yet where I understand many groupings are possible). For a layman, it will be nice to see some sort of rank attached next to it. I know NIC, in general, is good. But even many top commentary series have some big misses.

When I’m digging into a verse, I use BestCommentaries.com to see the top 10 and then go through it one by one. It would be a time saver if the rank is attached next to the commentary. Since Logos recently had a sale on the top 10 commentaries as ranked by this website, it is safe to assume that they do like this site. I know the rank moves around a bit, but that’s ok. How about picking the rank as of Dec 31^st and then attaching it for the following year? Effectively, update the ranks once a year.

I would appreciate the time saving that comes with providing a ranking next to the commentaries.

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MJ. Smith

When I’m digging into a verse, I use BestCommentaries.com to see the top 10 and then go through it one by one. It would be a time saver if the rank is attached next to the commentary.

No thank you. Best Commentaries has no basis for authority and would be akin to Faithlife explicitly supporting one particular theology above others. Were there a site that gave neutral academic rankings that treating many types of criticism as being of equal value, I would reconsider my position.

DMB

Sounds like a great opportunity for collections.

Certainly 'Best Commentaries' appeals to many, especially during purchase. But it's a particular perspective (avoiding theo-logical discussions).

1Cor10 31

I am a nobody, so I need to rely on experts to tell me where to spend my time. There are 50-100 commentaries on each book. Certainly most people don't have time to read that many. When I get stuck in a verse, I will read 5-10 commentaries to get an idea of what people are saying.

Here is one for the NT: https://www.logos.com/product/151680/new-testament-commentary-survey-7th-ed

Here is one for the OT: https://www.logos.com/product/31954/old-testament-commentary-survey-5th-ed

There are others by RC Sproul, John Piper etc. Pick your favorite. I am fine with having multiple rankings too. Just like sorting commentaries by denominational background of author, we could have sorting based on different rankings.

The point is that it would be helpful to have some sort of rankings next to it. It saves time for people who don't know the ins and outs.

John Kaess

I have tagged the top 2 or 3 commentaries for each book of the Bible as recommended in the two resources listed below and in addition, I tase the top 3 listed on Best Commentaries

Here is one for the NT: https://www.logos.com/product/151680/new-testament-commentary-survey-7th-ed

Here is one for the OT: https://www.logos.com/product/31954/old-testament-commentary-survey-5th-ed

I then built a collection with all commentaries that have any of those tags and have that collection in the passage and exegetical guide.

MJ. Smith

I am a nobody, so I need to rely on experts to tell me where to spend my time.

Yes, but you are the expert on what you want to know ... which any experts must know before they can make recommendations. For example:

do you want to read that which will reinforce what you already believe so that you can better defend it?
do you want to read the most recent material so you know what people are currently arguing about?
do you want to read a new approach to the material so that you can learn new skills to bring to the text?
do you want to read a historical survey of interpretations (reception history) so you know what has been thought over time?
do you want to something that challenges you current beliefs so that you can test them for validity and truthfulness?
... this list still could grow significantly but you should get the point.

The point is that it would be helpful to have some sort of rankings next to it. It saves time for people who don't know the ins and outs.

I agree with this but am uncertain what kind of ranking could be meaningful. There are certain publishers that I assume their resources are junk until proven otherwise. Other Logos users consider those same publishers among the best.

Sean

No thank you. Best Commentaries has no basis for authority and would be akin to Faithlife explicitly supporting one particular theology above others. Were there a site that gave neutral academic rankings that treating many types of criticism as being of equal value, I would reconsider my position.

+100% to all that MJ has said. Moreover, personally, why I am studying and what I am trying to find out has a great deal of bearing on which particular commentary is "best" for that purpose. Sometimes I really need an exegetical commentary; sometimes I need an expository one. Sometimes I need a critical one, and sometimes I need the opposite. Sometimes I wanting cutting-edge scholarship; sometimes I need the insights from a particular era.

Think of a range of commentaries as like a toolbox; it's rather arbitrary to say that a hammer is better than a screwdriver. Certainly there is a range of quality within commentaries of a certain type, but what you (or Best Commentaries) might consider the best I might think the opposite. It's better for everyone just to learn their libraries rather than forcing another schema on it.

DAL

As you mentioned, there will always be BIG misses even in the “best” commentaries. That’s why rankings are subjective. Sometimes the best insights will be found in a commentary that’s not even listed in the top 100.

Remember, study the text on your own then check commentaries. Most layman students of the Bible think studying the Bible means you read the top commentaries first.

Best wishes in your studies!

DAL

Brad

do you want to read that which will reinforce what you already believe so that you can better defend it?

do you want to read the most recent material so you know what people are currently arguing about?

do you want to read a new approach to the material so that you can learn new skills to bring to the text?

do you want to read a historical survey of interpretations (reception history) so you know what has been thought over time?

do you want to something that challenges you current beliefs so that you can test them for validity and truthfulness?

...

Yes I do!! [;)] That's why I buy too many commentaries! This brief list is great example of some of benefits of consulting a variety of commentaries. Nicely crafted, as usual, MJ.

1Cor10 31

Before I can respond, could somebody please tell me how to include snippets of others' replies in my own (like you all seem to do)? Thank you.

Timothy Beining

When I open Passage Guide, thanks to Matt Barnes, the commentaries are grouped in a logical order (I don’t have L9 yet where I understand many groupings are possible). For a layman, it will be nice to see some sort of rank attached next to it. I know NIC, in general, is good. But even many top commentary series have some big misses.

When I’m digging into a verse, I use BestCommentaries.com to see the top 10 and then go through it one by one. It would be a time saver if the rank is attached next to the commentary. Since Logos recently had a sale on the top 10 commentaries as ranked by this website, it is safe to assume that they do like this site. I know the rank moves around a bit, but that’s ok. How about picking the rank as of Dec 31^st and then attaching it for the following year? Effectively, update the ranks once a year.

I would appreciate the time saving that comes with providing a ranking next to the commentaries.

While I understand your thoughts on this I have to think it's not a good idea (in my opinion). I fear the bias that it could create in different Christian groups (traditions). I would not want to stare at this listing in my library every time I just wanted to browse around.

I think the best solutions to this are to be found in collections as suggested above by Denise, tagging or a combination of both. You could also edit the resource name to add a number or something before the title to help you with this. Personally I would go with collections or tagging or both.

Just my 3 Copper Abe's worth.

Tim

1Cor10 31

I am a nobody, so I need to rely on experts to tell me where to spend my time.

Yes, but you are the expert on what you want to know ... which any experts must know before they can make recommendations. For example:

do you want to read that which will reinforce what you already believe so that you can better defend it?

do you want to read the most recent material so you know what people are currently arguing about?

do you want to read a new approach to the material so that you can learn new skills to bring to the text?

do you want to read a historical survey of interpretations (reception history) so you know what has been thought over time?

do you want to something that challenges you current beliefs so that you can test them for validity and truthfulness?

... this list still could grow significantly but you should get the point.

Till just a few years back, I didn’t think I was smart enough to be able to read the Bible and come to independent conclusions. I took the various pastors at face value without questioning anything. Then a few dominoes fell in place. First, I was reading a book on how to read the Bible and it struck me that researching the Bible is very similar to researching Finance (which I do for a living). The main difference is the tools. Second, one of my fellow academic found it hard to believe that a logical person like me would believe in God. I thought that if I am logical, my God must be infinitely more logical. So I started trying to understand the “why” behind God’s decisions. Asking “why” comes naturally to all academics. As I made progress, I realized that some of my beliefs fell apart and some of my beliefs became rock solid because I could derive a logical basis for my belief.

Bringing it back together, the purpose I read commentaries is to ensure that the doctrine is not based on wrong interpretation.

Surely, I don’t want to reinvent the wheel. Therefore, I would like to know the history. I’ve thought about the counterpoint series: https://www.logos.com/product/183828/zondervan-counterpoints-series. I am interested in knowing about other good resources.

The point is that it would be helpful to have some sort of rankings next to it. It saves time for people who don't know the ins and outs.
I agree with this but am uncertain what kind of ranking could be meaningful. There are certain publishers that I assume their resources are junk until proven otherwise. Other Logos users consider those same publishers among the best.

1Cor10 31

No thank you. Best Commentaries has no basis for authority and would be akin to Faithlife explicitly supporting one particular theology above others. Were there a site that gave neutral academic rankings that treating many types of criticism as being of equal value, I would reconsider my position.

+100% to all that MJ has said. Moreover, personally, why I am studying and what I am trying to find out has a great deal of bearing on which particular commentary is "best" for that purpose. Sometimes I really need an exegetical commentary; sometimes I need an expository one. Sometimes I need a critical one, and sometimes I need the opposite. Sometimes I wanting cutting-edge scholarship; sometimes I need the insights from a particular era.

Think of a range of commentaries as like a toolbox; it's rather arbitrary to say that a hammer is better than a screwdriver. Certainly there is a range of quality within commentaries of a certain type, but what you (or Best Commentaries) might consider the best I might think the opposite. It's better for everyone just to learn their libraries rather than forcing another schema on it.

I completely agree that it is good to read a range of commentaries. I've ready badly-ranked commentaries and found good takeaways. But there are times when time is in short supply, you want a ranking to help you make the best use of the time.

I have no intention of imposing my preference on anybody. That is why I prefer multiple rankings being available.

1Cor10 31

As you mentioned, there will always be BIG misses even in the “best” commentaries. That’s why rankings are subjective. Sometimes the best insights will be found in a commentary that’s not even listed in the top 100.

Remember, study the text on your own then check commentaries. Most layman students of the Bible think studying the Bible means you read the top commentaries first.

Best wishes in your studies!

DAL

I agree with you as I've also found nuggets in unranked commentaries. Nobody has unlimited time, thus we need to prioritize. That is where I'm coming from.

Dave Hooton

I have no intention of imposing my preference on anybody. That is why I prefer multiple rankings being available.

You can Prioritize commentaries and they will appear in that order in the Commentaries section (under Priority). You can have multiple collections of commentaries, and prioritize the top 5 -10 in each collection. This gives you a more refined ranking, where you separate the top 50 or so from the bottom 50 or so. But you can sort each collection by Era, Type or Author/Denomination in the guide, as a further refinement.

Joseph Turner

I need to rely on experts to tell me where to spend my time. There are 50-100 commentaries on each book. Certainly most people don't have time to read that many. When I get stuck in a verse, I will read 5-10 commentaries to get an idea of what people are saying.

I use the Denver Bibliographies, and the OT is annotated. I have made two personal books, OT/NT, which you can find here. All of the commentaries are linked to Logos resources, so you just have to click on them to either open them or go to the website to buy them. Once you build them in Logos as a personal book, they open just like any other resource.

1Cor10 31

I think a few general points can be made:

If Spurgeon found use in commentaries (https://archive.spurgeon.org/misc/c&cl1.php), then it will surely be even more useful to me. Here is a quote from Spurgeon that caught my eye: “you are not such wiseacres as to think or say that you can expound Scripture without assistance from the works of divines and learned men who have laboured before you in the field of exposition…. It has been the fashion of late years to speak against the use of commentaries.” Moreover, if Spurgeon has read many commentaries and told me which he finds useful, why would I not use such information?

I am a libertarian, so I have no desire to impose my preferences on anyone. I am a financial economist, so the desire for optimization and finding first-best solutions that are win-win for all concerned is natural, which brings me to my next point.

If my paycheck is magically put into my bank account without me working, I would happily spend 10 hours/day on Biblical research. But I need to earn my paycheck. For people like me who are trying to squeeze the most out of the time they have on Biblical research, anything that saves time is valuable. Having ranks from several sources next to the commentary and the ability to choose the top-ranked commentary for a book from a given ranking source helps saves time. For others who don’t value the rank, please ignore the rank. Are you so weak that you will be influenced by a rank simply because it is staring at you? Some people benefit from having ranks, others don’t get hurt, and Logos makes money. I think this is an overall win for everyone (what financial economists call “Pareto optimal” solution).

1Cor10 31

I use the Denver Bibliographies, and the OT is annotated. I have made two personal books, OT/NT, which you can find here. All of the commentaries are linked to Logos resources, so you just have to click on them to either open them or go to the website to buy them. Once you build them in Logos as a personal book, they open just like any other resource.

Thank you Joseph. These are helpful coming from an expert.

As a fresh PhD student in Finance, I initially wasted my time reading papers published in crappy journals. Why? Bcos no one told me what the top journals were. I took a topic and tried to read everything on that topic from every journal. What an inefficient use of time! Then, one day, I was reading a #4 ranked finance journal in my department, and a professor who walked past me told me that I am wasting my time! (In finance, the top 3 journals stand out compared to the 100-other journals.) Thank God for such professors.

EastTN

If my paycheck is magically put into my bank account without me working, I would happily spend 10 hours/day on Biblical research. But I need to earn my paycheck. For people like me who are trying to squeeze the most out of the time they have on Biblical research, anything that saves time is valuable. Having ranks from several sources next to the commentary and the ability to choose the top-ranked commentary for a book from a given ranking source helps saves time. For others who don’t value the rank, please ignore the rank. Are you so weak that you will be influenced by a rank simply because it is staring at you? Some people benefit from having ranks, others don’t get hurt, and Logos makes money. I think this is an overall win for everyone (what financial economists call “Pareto optimal” solution).

I agree. There's a genuine problem here - how does someone who is relatively new to serious Bible study make sense of the flood of commentaries that FaithLife makes available and know where to start? It may not be a problem for someone who has already read three or four commentaries on the book of Romans, for instance, is familiar with the names of some of the leading scholars in the field, and is looking for a couple more commentaries to help round out their understanding of the book. But for a lay teacher (with a full-time secular job) who is looking to purchase their first serious commentary on Romans because they've been asked to teach an adult class on the book next quarter, it's an issue. They don't need someone to dictate which commentary to read, but they do need help. There are different ways it could be done - external rankings, user reviews, ranking by popularity, ranking by number of other sources citing it - but it's not an unreasonable thing to ask for.

GregW

When I approach a new book of the Bible for a preaching series, I normally tag the top five in Bestcommentaries with a "Bestcommentaries" tag, and prioritise those five commentaries in descending order. If I don't have all five I either go to the next one or buy, depending on the missing commentary. I have an additional section in my Passage Guide for Bestcommentaries commentaries, and use that for sermon preparation.

In the time I have available for preparing to preach I don't normally get time to refer to more than five commentaries. I also use background commentaries and the New Testament Use of the Old Testament commentary. That way, I can consult the Bestcommentaries commentaries for sermon preparation, and if I'm doing something more academic I can go broader. That works pretty well for me, as Bestcommentaries largely reflects evangelical academic scholarship. I recognise that isn't going to be true for everyone.