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Jeremy Archer | Forum Activity | Posted: Wed, Dec 9 2020 6:31 AM

In many of the guides you have the option to "Search all" of a particular resource type. For example, I can "Search all Systematic Theologies" or "Search all Grammars."

When I do this I get a new search window with the search field already populated.

Something like "<BibleESV Hebrews 1:8>" where the search criteria is "All text in All Passages in All Systematic Theologies" for...

However, when doing this some resources that have references to Hebrews 1:8 and are classified in my library as systematic theologies do not appear in the results. For example, Grudem's second edition ST.

If I search the resource directly for Hebrews 1:8 I get multiple hits.

Can someone please explain to me why this is the case?

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 8:40 AM

Jeremy Archer:

In many of the guides you have the option to "Search all" of a particular resource type. For example, I can "Search all Systematic Theologies" or "Search all Grammars."

When I do this I get a new search window with the search field already populated.

Something like "<BibleESV Hebrews 1:8>" where the search criteria is "All text in All Passages in All Systematic Theologies" for...

However, when doing this some resources that have references to Hebrews 1:8 and are classified in my library as systematic theologies do not appear in the results. For example, Grudem's second edition ST.

If I search the resource directly for Hebrews 1:8 I get multiple hits.

Can someone please explain to me why this is the case?

Hi Jeremy,

This is because references need to be formatted as <Hebrews 1:8>. It wouldn't include the Bible version. I hope this helps.

Philana

Posts 2578
LogosEmployee

The Second Edition of Grudem's Systematic Theology has not yet received Theology Topic tagging. Until it does, there will not be any results in an "All Systematic Theologies" search (although the first edition will returns hits).

As a work around until the tagging is completed, you can filter your resources using type:theology, and you should get the desired hits.

Posts 18
Jeremy Archer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 8:44 AM

Thank you, Philana but I don't believe that is true.

That syntax works in other ST texts and changing it to your instructed syntax does not fix the problem.

Posts 18
Jeremy Archer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 8:45 AM

Can someone please explain to me why FL releases incomplete resources? This introduces so much inconsistency and undermines the trust of search results. If I cannot trust your search results I cannot trust Logos at all.

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Philana R. Crouch | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 9:03 AM

Jeremy Archer:

Thank you, Philana but I don't believe that is true.

That syntax works in other ST texts and changing it to your instructed syntax does not fix the problem.

Hi Jeremy,

I'm sorry, Andrew had more info on what the problem was.

Posts 2578
LogosEmployee

Let me provide a little more detail about what is going on here.

There are two different datasets that provide Systematic Theology tagging data for resources.

One dataset is the "Lexham Systematic Theology Ontology Dataset". This resource powers the Theology Guide. The search link there which searches "All Systematic Theologies" does the same thing as the resource type filter that I mentioned.

The second dataset is the "Systematic Theology Cross References Dataset". This resource powers the Systematic Theologies section in the Passage Guide and Sermon Starter Guide. The search link there which searches "All Systematic Theologies" is limited to those resources which contribute data to the "Systematic Theology Cross References Dataset".

The process for adding data to both datasets requires a published resource. Because of that, you will not see Systematic Theology tagging immediately on release of a new resource.

The Second Edition of Grudem's Systematic Theology was just released yesterday, and the required tagging is currently underway for both of these datasets. We expect to release an update to those datasets soon containing this tagging.

Posts 18
Jeremy Archer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 11:39 AM

Thank you, Andrew.

I hope that you can see how these types of things negatively impact confidence in the product.

How would one know that they need to implement a workaround? Is this true for other texts? If so, how would know? If a search is conducted on a collection of works is there a way to see which of those works is not showing results?

Most importantly, are the updates pushed all at once or are they done in batches? If done in batches how would a customer know what results they are getting and which are missing?

Additionally, there is no indication on the product page this is unfinished. There is a big difference between an unfinished resource and errors that later need to be corrected.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 1:16 PM

Jeremy Archer:
Can someone please explain to me why FL releases incomplete resources? This introduces so much inconsistency and undermines the trust of search results. If I cannot trust your search results I cannot trust Logos at all.

I don't assume theological tagging until I see it added to the list of theologically tagged books.  Just as I expect to have to check sermon tagging. Granted this is not obvious to someone just starting with the product and granted that this is not ideal. But given the workload on the resource production staff and the observed priorities, I'd rather have the resource without all the indexing than not having the resource at all. It is no different than resources produced prior to the particular tagging existing.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 18
Jeremy Archer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 1:37 PM

How would one even know of such a list or even where to find it?

Posts 18
Jeremy Archer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 1:43 PM

In the OP I expressed confusion that if I attempted to search Grudem's ST for a Bible reference it failed when I used the Basic search in "All Systematic Theologies" item.

But.. if I did the exact same search and changed from "All Systematic Theologies" to a custom collection of books that includes Grudem's text it works just fine.

If Grudem's text is categorized as a systematic theology I cannot understand why that search would require any additional type of tagging. Clearly the references have already been tagged since the results are available.

I hope it is clear why this actually really hazardous to the trustworthiness of Logos. When searches behave differently on the basis of information that is simply not available to the user there is never any type of assurances that the results are trustworthy.

Posts 18
Jeremy Archer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 1:50 PM

To better illustrate the problem see the following screenshot. 

Posts 18
Jeremy Archer | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Dec 9 2020 2:58 PM

Okay.. I reread this thread a few times and think I understand better. The "All Systematic Theologies" is a dataset while the other is a collection of books.

Since Grudem's text hasn't been added to the data set it will not contain any information.

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