An Appeal: Primary Sources Languishing in CP

Page 1 of 2 (26 items) 1 2 Next >
This post has 25 Replies | 2 Followers

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Posted: Sat, Mar 13 2021 8:16 AM

I would like to make an appeal for everyone to reconsider bidding on these, and all, primary sources.  One of THE major selling points and developmental focuses of Logos Bible Software is that users own a research library.  Key to any research is primary sources, and if we cannot get primary sources in production, then we are losing out on the opportunity to check the assertions made by the commentators, and for at least these resources, the opportunity is easily within our reach, as the resources are already in Community Pricing.

I am sure it will never happen, but I would actually appeal to Logos to put all primary sources into production after a specified time in CP or Pre-Pub, as primary source material is so vital to the customer base who is using Logos for research purposes, and their already considerable catalog of primary sources is a good selling point.  It keeps users in the Logos ecosystem, and that is good for business.

I have gone through and searched my library for the authors listed, and in the case of collections with multiple authors, I just picked one. 

Please consider helping to bolster our access to primary sources!

 

Geographers of the Roman Era (26 vols.)

Search for “strabo” (excluding Walafrid Strabo) = 31,356 results in 20,069 articles in 2,609 resources

Select Works of Lucian (10 vols.)

Search for “Lucian of Samosata” = 393,599 results in 1,096 articles in 552 resources

Works of Procopius of Caesarea (14 vols.)

Search for “Procopius of Caesarea” = 341 results in 304 articles in 52 resources

Athenaeus’ The Deipnosophists (14 vols.)

Search for “deipnosophists” = 240 results in 177 articles in 114 resources

Works of Sextus Empiricus (8 vols.)

Search for “Sextus Empiricus” = 5,913 results in 3,811 articles in 393 resources

Greek Poets of Late Antiquity (10 vols.)

Search for “Dionysiaca” = 2,255 results in 1,905 articles in 88 resources

Select Works of Cicero (36 vols.)

Search for “Cicero” = 97,083 results in 39,132 articles in 5,327 resources

Diodorus Siculus’ Library of History (22 vols.)

Search for “Diodorus Siculus” = 11,679 results in 8,788 articles in 1,416 resources

Technical Treatises of Antiquity (22 vols.)

Search for “Asclepiodotus” = 798 results in 488 articles in 82 resources

Roman Poetry Collection (24 vols.)

Search for “Valerius Flaccus” = 1,848 results in 1,449 articles in 164 resources

Livy's History of Rome (28 vols.)

Search for “Livy” = 13,237 results in 7,623 articles in 2,089 resources

Sophists of the Roman Era (20 vols.)

Search for “Alciphron” = 1,403 results in 1,216 articles in 199 resources

Classical Greek Orators Collection (30 vols.)

Search for “Isocrates” = 12,250 results in 8,509 articles in 1,158 resources

Latin Language and Culture Collection (18 vols.)

Search for “Varro” = 12,808 results in 8,480 articles in 985 resources

Letters of Cicero (12 vols.)

Search for “Cicero” = 97,083 results in 39,132 articles in 5,327 resources

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 9629
Forum MVP
Bruce Dunning | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 6:25 AM

I placed my bid on all of these resources when they first came out. Thanks for encouraging others to join in.

Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God

Posts 1123
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 10:41 AM

I too have been disheartened by books languishing in CP  I wrote to FL a number of times and even used that word.

I made some suggestions to speed up the process.  One suggestion was to inform the users who much in dollars was needed for a project.  Perhaps someone would just make a donation.

Another was that FL would set a time frame, say a year, for a title to be in there.  They would then tally the bidders high bids.  After all, they bid what they were willing to pay  If the tally of bids exceeds the costs necessary, then publish the books and charge accordingly.  The lowest bids accepted would be the suggested minimum bid.  No late comers would want to take advantage.

There are a lot of resources where I bid the max and would gladly pay it if FL published them. 

I wish they would do something with this.

Posts 524
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 10:59 AM

Larry Craig:
There are a lot of resources where I bid the max and would gladly pay it if FL published them. 

Maybe a separate 'Go Fund Me' program for selected volumes? I can't see CP itself working for just high-rollers.  Pre-pub already has some pretty stiff prices for volumes in there for years ... and costs constantly increasing.

Posts 1123
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 11:02 AM

FL would need to tell us just how much more they need.  Saying 80% doesn't tell us enough.

Posts 5859
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 5:50 PM

I’m in for all of them and bumped up my bids if you are serious about wanting to see these get through consider bumping up your current bid two levels. Getting a title over the line is about gaining momentum. Keep talking about them and their value, keep them in front of people so they think about bidding on then or increasing their bid. Unfortunately people tend to go to the page and bid where the current peak is or bid lower than the current peak hoping the price will drop at the end and momentum behind to stall. These sort of titles are harder to get people excited about but I agree with Joseph, having primary sources on hand in our libraries is a good thing.

Posts 8409
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 6:19 PM

It seems like CP has lost its mojo.  I remember 10 years ago we had more stuff coming out of there than we have now.  Maybe the resources back then were more popular than the ones offered today.

Other than the great cheap Mobile Eds and BDAG expansions I haven’t really seen anything that stands out, even on this list.  I love CP but man it needs a revamp to have more success.

DAL

Posts 1567
Ben | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 6:30 PM

These are all Greco/Roman primary sources, and some of us just don't work in that area much. Hard to spend $20x6 on something one will probably not comprehend, let alone use. 

"The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected."- G.K. Chesterton

Posts 1123
Larry Craig | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 6:45 PM

I think it just backed up.  Too much stuff.

There are a lot of really good stuff buried in there. I sent Logos pages and pages of resources that I wanted from there.  I begged them to do more with that.  Lot of those classic commentaries.

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, Mar 14 2021 7:09 PM

Ben:

These are all Greco/Roman primary sources, and some of us just don't work in that area much. Hard to spend $20x6 on something one will probably not comprehend, let alone use. 

But Greco-Roman primary sources are in many respects New Testament background.  Are they not?  Obviously Judaism is the overarching background for the New Testament, but Greco-Roman sources are certainly important.  Any work by Keener, Aune, Koester, or other academics working in the New Testament will be replete with Greco-Roman primary source citations.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 17 2021 8:04 AM

Bump

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 928
Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 17 2021 10:09 AM

I've always been all in on these! Good bump, Joseph! Smile

Posts 524
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 17 2021 11:47 AM

Joseph Turner:

Please consider helping to bolster our access to primary sources!

Geographers of the Roman Era (26 vols.)

Search for “strabo” (excluding Walafrid Strabo) = 31,356 results in 20,069 articles in 2,609 resources

This one is surprising, since Strabo is often mentioned in tracking down Biblical places (Qumran!). Perseus has the tagged greek for Strabo, but slow going if you're not a greek reader. No english I think.

The Logos page has example screen shots, but the example below from Archive, discusses Spain ... St Paul's hoped-for mission field. For me, it was also part of the copper/metal rabbit-trail and what the mines were producing.

Strabo for $32 is a good deal. Now, for the commentary (Amazon; modern), that be $150+. Looks like Stabo is a college subject.

B009DFEE D0A4-442B BCD9-F4645442A671


Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2021 4:50 AM

Everyone...just...click...bid.  Primary sources help to up the academic credentials of Logos, making it more marketable, and therefore, more sustainable.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 928
Lew Worthington | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2021 6:18 AM

Maybe in our appeal would could focus on what's immediately attainable. Then, when that's made it, move on to the next. Smile

Livy's History of Rome is pretty close. We could get there soon!

Posts 5584
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Mar 24 2021 6:12 PM

DMB:
Pre-pub already has some pretty stiff prices for volumes in there for years ... and costs constantly increasing.

Although making more liberal use of Logos Reader Editions could help with many texts stuck in PrePub or CP. Less tagging, less cost. The Catholic Encyclopedia is a Logos Reader Edition. If it doesn't need the full tagging of a Logos Research Edition, most other resources don't need quite all of it either.

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Mar 29 2021 5:04 AM

Bid, Bid, Bid!!

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Apr 1 2021 4:40 AM

Primary sources are a vital component of Logos as a research library; I ask that you place your bids.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 2 2021 5:00 AM

Here is a great video provided by Zondervan with Craig Keener where he discusses his research methodology.  In it he discusses the importance of primary sources.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Posts 2292
Joseph Turner | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Apr 26 2021 4:38 AM

Several of these have had some movement, but they are still struggling.  Again, I don't think primary sources should have to linger in Community Pricing, as they are necessary to the "library" model focus of Logos, which is to be able to follow links to their sources, and primary sources should be at the top of the list.

In the purchase of Wordsearch, Logos has brought over many resources which didn't have to go through CP but would have normally, and many of those probably never would have made it to publication.  I wish there were some internal guidelines that would make exceptions for works like primary sources and volumes in collections already offered.

Disclaimer:  I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication.  If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.

Page 1 of 2 (26 items) 1 2 Next > | RSS