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This post has 11 Replies | 3 Followers

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Sean | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, Apr 16 2021 8:27 PM

[Okay, I should have done this a long time ago: I am attaching my Logos logs along with a commentary of what I did. Please diagnosis any problems or points of slowness. As how it goes when you call the xerox machine repairman, however, Logos was much quicker with this session, only hanging on a couple points, not constantly like it normally does. Go figure. Any tips or hints anyone can give me would be greatly appreciated!]

1. Update to the latest version. Closed Logos, let the indexing complete, the rebooted (Windows also need to do some updates. I also cleared out a little bit of Windows bloat--maybe that helped?)

2. Started Logos up. Let it do its thing if the update needed to finishing installing. Closed Logos.

3. Started Logos again. Logs are from this session. Oops, it needs to index again--unlike what some staff here have stated, indexing 2 or 3 times in a row before finishing isn’t unusual at all. I’ll let it finish indexing before I do anything else.

Okay, here are the things I did. Please diagnose my slowness:

A. From a blank layout, switched to the home page. By my stopwatch, it took about 50 seconds to load. I know it needs to download stuff, but I have a fast wifi connection, about 75mbps down. (Note: I abandoned using the home page with L8 because of this. I am just testing here for the log.)

B. From the home page, I opened a daily Bible study layout. It has about a dozen tabs. It took almost 30 seconds to load.

C. Next, I opened a more elaborate layout. That took about 20 seconds. It actually seemed much faster than usual.

D. I tried the Fact Book and the Topic Guide. Usually the pull down menus take a very long time to populate; this time they were also reasonably fast.

1830.Sean Logos Logs 17 Apr 2021.zip

Posts 9151
LogosEmployee
Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Apr 16 2021 11:32 PM

Even the first line of the file is bad news:

021-04-17 08:24:11.4702  INFO 1 OurApp | Starting application (9.4, version 9.4.0.0009 x64 on Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.19042.0, .NET 4.0.30319.42000) at 9.596 seconds.

Logos hasn't done anything yet, except the bare minimum to initialise the logging system. This is primarily all Windows loading the Logos binaries, performing standard DLL/EXE initialisation, etc. This is probably very I/O heavy, but likely involves some CPU for JITting and running the startup routines for the program.

On my system (recent Windows laptop), this line logged 0.567 seconds. 

I think in your other post you said you didn't have a SSD and are perhaps tired of seeing the suggestions to buy one to fix Logos performance problems... but... Logos is an I/O-intensive program. And for this first log line, we haven't really run any Logos code yet. Even if we optimised the rest of Logos to be super fast, it would probably still run 15x slower on your system (compared to mine) just from the lower I/O performance of a spinning HDD (and, I'm guessing, a slower CPU).

2021-04-17 08:25:33.0544 INFO 1 OurApp | Showing main window at 91.18 seconds.

My system logged 5.178 seconds (about 17x faster).

I know you don't want to be told to buy a newer computer, so I won't say that. I'll just say that... I've seen Logos run faster on newer systems?

Time-permitting, I'll come back and look at the log in more detail to see if there is anything else you could change in the program to get a small speedup.

Posts 1334
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 17 2021 12:06 AM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Time-permitting, I'll come back and look at the log in more detail to see if there is anything else you could change in the program to get a small speedup.

Okay Bradley, truth is good from the doctor even if it's bad news. Thanks for looking at it.

For what it's worth, the system is an Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6200U CPU @ 2.30GHz   2.40 GHz with 8GB RAM. It's five years old at this point. It wasn't terrible when I got it.

The good news is a new system may be on the horizon in a few months, and I'll definitely get an SSD this time. An performance tweaks you can suggest till then would be very welcome.

Posts 5479
Forum MVP
Mike Binks | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 17 2021 1:33 AM

Sean:
The good news is a new system may be on the horizon in a few months, and I'll definitely get an SSD this time. An performance tweaks you can suggest till then would be very welcome.

Sean,

One of my regular prompts for folk going to buy a new machine is to remember that in some cases the computer could well be considered a work tool and thus be tax-deductible. If you are an employed church person (or even receive an occasional gratuity for performing services to the church) you may find this applies. I know it does in the UK and nobody has ever said that it doesn't in the USA. It can allow one to purchase a more robust setup while reducing the real cost.

Professionals need professional tools and Logos is only part of the professional tool.

(I'll beat my 'total cost of ownership' drum elsewhere'). ;-)

tootle pip

Mike

How to get logs and post them. (now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs)

Posts 524
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 17 2021 7:08 AM

Sean:
The good news is a new system may be on the horizon in a few months

I bit the bullet and installed an SSD ten years ago (it had a video for my PC; fit perfect). And as previously noted, it's still humming along, and competitive with more recent Logosian experiences. FL support long terminated, but it's like the Eveready bunny.

So, your new system might last a pretty good while (vs Logos demands).

Being a (retired) CPA, buying Logos resources, along with equipment was always theologically amortized, with a planned kill-switch. That switch is approaching now, and the investment is still delivering near maximum. My Dad's Bible software pretty much died as planned (useless to pass on) ... Logos is turning out far better.

Posts 9151
LogosEmployee

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Time-permitting, I'll come back and look at the log in more detail to see if there is anything else you could change in the program to get a small speedup.

There are a lot of log lines about "Updating community metadata". Although this runs in the background, it will be writing data to your library catalog database, which will be diverting your HDD from performing other tasks. You can disable this in Program Settings > Internet > Show Community Ratings & Show Community Tags. This won't speed up startup, but may help the program run smoother.

"(8000ms) Updating collection cache." -- This seems really good, given your system's overall performance; I don't think you need to make any modifications to your Resource Collections.

Not seeing any evidence of expensive Visual Filter documents, which is usually the other thing I'd look for.

Posts 1334
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Apr 17 2021 5:55 PM

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
There are a lot of log lines about "Updating community metadata". Although this runs in the background, it will be writing data to your library catalog database, which will be diverting your HDD from performing other tasks. You can disable this in Program Settings > Internet > Show Community Ratings & Show Community Tags. This won't speed up startup, but may help the program run smoother.

Any little bump helps. Thanks for your time!

Posts 5859
DIsciple II | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 1 2021 2:59 PM

Sean:

Bradley Grainger (Faithlife):
Time-permitting, I'll come back and look at the log in more detail to see if there is anything else you could change in the program to get a small speedup.

Okay Bradley, truth is good from the doctor even if it's bad news. Thanks for looking at it.

For what it's worth, the system is an Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-6200U CPU @ 2.30GHz   2.40 GHz with 8GB RAM. It's five years old at this point. It wasn't terrible when I got it.

The good news is a new system may be on the horizon in a few months, and I'll definitely get an SSD this time. An performance tweaks you can suggest till then would be very welcome.

My computer is of similar vintage and I know it needs replacing but it's a little bit further being replaced than you are with yours.  A SSD will be one of the main requirements. For me on my current machine I know its not just an issue with Logos but Windows itself before it even gets to Logos code so put up with the how slow Logos is knowing that there are better days ahead when I do get a new machine.  

Posts 363
danwdoo | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, May 1 2021 11:56 PM

I'm running Logos on an 8 year old Dell laptop with an i7 -3632QM at a breathtaking 2.20Ghz! I have 8GB Ram (because the laptop literally can't handle more). I had a 7200RPM spinning drive that I had paid extra to get to help make things quicker but my Windows boots were still always 'go grab coffee time' and everything was generally growing sluggish after about 4 years of use, especially Logos. Then I went out and bought a Samsung SSD and replaced my original drive and it was a whole new world! Windows now boots in seconds and just for fun, I ran Logos logs today to compare with yours. I'm even on a beta version of Windows 10, so mine is a true nightmare scenario and yet here are the numbers I received:

2021-05-02 10:34:03.8489  INFO 1 OurApp | Starting application (9.4, version 9.4.0.0009 x64 on Microsoft Windows NT 10.0.21364.0, .NET 4.0.30319.42000) at 0.571 seconds.

2021-05-02 10:34:15.5043  INFO 1 OurApp | Showing main window at 12.227 seconds.

Not bad at all for an 8 year old laptop! Logos (and just about everything else) runs perfectly reasonable on this machine and I'll probably get another 2-3 years of useful life out of it. I do have other newer machines as well, but this laptop is still used daily.

Sooo.... seriously, stop punishing yourself and love yourself enough to get an SSD!!!!!!! =). The productivity time you will regain will be more than worth any cost or trouble trouble changing the drive out.

Posts 500
xnman | Forum Activity | Replied: Sun, May 2 2021 2:09 PM

My suggestion is two fold....

1. have at least 16 gig of ram.

2. Bite the bullet (as I did) and install a SSD. I have an old machine that had a HDD in it. It was s..l..o..w!  I did the updates above.... and I like my machine now even though it is old. (probably came over on the Mayflower!)

Logos is I/O intensive.... which makes the SSD a good add in. SSD's have come down in price and I think they are now a good investment....

That's my 2 cents which don't mean anything!

xn = Christan  man=man

Posts 1334
Sean | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, Jun 25 2021 9:09 PM

The end of the story... I've been blessed with a new laptop--11th Gen. i7, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD.

Indexing of 5,000 resources took less than an hour. Performance is (obviously) much much better than previously. I haven't done much besides a little reading and flipping through layouts. Most loaded within 2-3 seconds but I did have once where I got the "Logos is not responding" Windows error when it took about 5-7 seconds to finish. Factbook and other tools are MUCH faster now and I'm not having any troubles with the pulldown menus populating.

Although I would still contend that this could be a snappier program, Logos is now working the way that it should. The bottom line is: no, you really can't avoid getting an SSD anymore. Hopefully this configuration will serve me well for a good number of years (please).

Posts 5584
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Jun 26 2021 9:02 AM

Sean:
The bottom line is: no, you really can't avoid getting an SSD anymore.

Indeed.

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