Are Freemasons Heretic? Resources

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Posted: Fri, May 21 2021 1:42 PM

Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

I am not a mason nor do I intend to experiment with it. But, some of the authors I respect have been charged with being associated with this organization. And, as is well documented some of the founders were said to have been masons. The Washington Monument is an obelisk, a well known symbol of masonry. I'm looking for a resource/resources that reliably discusses these issues and places them squarely against the truth of the gospel.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 2:07 PM

It depends, you hear all kinds of stuff or watch all kinds of stuff in the history channel.

I worked for a group home in the midwest years ago and each big house had the masonry sign in the corner of the houses.  Nice big houses with basements that could be another house with all the rooms they had! Each house had its own apartment too! Perfect for tornado season 💨 

DAL

Posts 1683
Paul Caneparo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 2:17 PM

Beloved Amodeo:

Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

I am not a mason nor do I intend to experiment with it. But, some of the authors I respect have been charged with being associated with this organization. And, as is well documented some of the founders were said to have been masons. The Washington Monument is an obelisk, a well known symbol of masonry. I'm looking for a resource/resources that reliably discusses these issues and places them squarely against the truth of the gospel.

Does this book help?

https://ebooks.faithlife.com/product/21060/fast-facts-on-the-masonic-lodge

Posts 45
Ken Thompsen | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 2:22 PM

Beloved Amodeo:

Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

I am not a mason nor do I intend to experiment with it. But, some of the authors I respect have been charged with being associated with this organization. And, as is well documented some of the founders were said to have been masons. The Washington Monument is an obelisk, a well known symbol of masonry. I'm looking for a resource/resources that reliably discusses these issues and places them squarely against the truth of the gospel.

Removing all the conspiratorial Dan Brown stuff aside, Freemasons behave like Gnostics and other mystery cults. You don't even have to get into their doctrines - just the practice of mystery and "special knowledge" in and of itself is heretical and against the Gospel of Christ. Christ came to give himself freely. Not relegate people into levels and "degrees" of knowing him, and encourage elitism. The was what was so false about original gnosticism too. You don't even have to get into their doctrines - it's the insistence on mystery and elitism that is the opposite of the "Good News" of Jesus Christ (it wouldn't be "good news" if it was hidden from most people). The red flag in,s ay, the apocryphal Gospel of Thomas is that Jesus would tell some of his disciples one thing, but only set aside Thomas (or in some texts, Mary Magdalene) and give the "real" truths. It ascribes malice and elitism to Jesus and has him treat people like worthless fools. And to this day, this kind of thinking has a certain appeal to some. They want to be feel "special" and "elite" and privy to things others don't. But Christ told us that the greatest of the kingdom of heaven shall be a servant - or a child even - not an elite.

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David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 2:31 PM

It could depend on the denomination as well. Some forbid membership. Not knowing anything about what church you might belong to, I can't really offer more than that.

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 2:46 PM

Paul Caneparo:
Its inexpensive. I didn't find it when I searched with headword freemason. Thanks! Paul.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 3165
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 2:52 PM

David Wanat:

It could depend on the denomination as well. Some forbid membership. Not knowing anything about what church you might belong to, I can't really offer more than that.

I belong to a non-denominational assembly. Our minister of music is a mason, I think he's got himself into a pickle, but it's not my place to judge.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 3:04 PM

Beloved Amodeo:
Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

It is certainly reasonable to ask for resources on the relationship between Christianity and Freemasonry - historical and contemporary. To ask that they be authoritative, requires that I know what you consider authoritative, which I do not.A quick search of the store gives

My own experience tells me that there are at least two very different branches of Freemasonry - there is a benevolent social society one and there is an occult one. Knowing this, in your position, I would start by making sure I knew what "Freemasonry" I wanted to learn about -- there are probably multiple correct answers.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3165
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 3:32 PM

MJ. Smith:
It is certainly reasonable to ask for resources on the relationship between Christianity and Freemasonry - historical and contemporary. To ask that they be authoritative, requires that I know what you consider authoritative, which I do not.
Authoritative for me means that the author or authors have a record of scholarship and are well informed on the subject they are writing on and are committed to making a fair document of the subject they are presenting on. Thank you for the question and your list of resources. 

I would further comment that we appear to need more resources on this subject.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

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Ronald Quick | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 3:33 PM

I haven't read this book by Barton, but I do own the Wallbuilders collection that it is in.  The book is 116 pages.  Here are a couple quotes from it that give you an idea of his perspective:

"Despite abundant historical proof to the contrary, many current writers on the subject of Freemasonry in the Founding Era still wrongly espouse that: (1) virtually every one of the Founding Fathers was a Freemason; (2) early American Freemasonry was no different from modern Freemasonry; (3) American Freemasonry was a hotbed for the Illuminati; and (4) the Founders established America on cultic principles"

"Numerous other similarly ludicrous charges have been made—charges that receive wide publicity and which, regrettably, are today believed by many. Yet, to accept such fables, one must ignore the unequivocal historical facts documented in this book: (1) the overwhelming majority of the Founders were not Freemasons; (2) many who were Masons were at best inactive; (3) the Freemasonry of the Founders is not Freemasonry of today; and (4) the overwhelming majority of both Masonic and non-Masonic Founders were generally orthodox Christians who were very pro-God and pro-Christ in both words and actions."


David Barton, The Question of Freemasonry and the Founding Fathers, Wallbuilders’ Historical Issues Series (Aledo, TX: WallBuilders Press, 2005), 115–116.

I do enjoy reading Barton and he includes numerous citations throughout his works so you can check his accuracy.

https://www.logos.com/product/163925/the-question-of-freemasonry-and-the-founding-fathers 

https://www.logos.com/product/17337/wallbuilders-american-foundations-digital-library

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 3:42 PM

Beloved Amodeo:
Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

No. 

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Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 3:49 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Beloved Amodeo:
Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

No. 

I respectfully disagree, but I accept your assessment. I will stay away from inflammatory language and baseless observations.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 3:53 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Beloved Amodeo:
Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

No. 

Thank you Adam for your clear and reasonable response.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 155
1Cor10:31 | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 4:42 PM

MJ. Smith:

1Cor10:31:

Bible cannot have contradictions

Talk about a theologically loaded assertion ... Have you read any apophatic theology? 

Hi MJ: I got this email that you posted to the other thread that was on the same topic. For some reason, your post was not posted there before it got closed. So I am posting here and responding. Sorry didn't know how to respond otherwise.

Since I am not seminary-educated, I had to google "apophatic." I have read a few books on the attributes of God. Some of them talk about what God is NOT. Don't know if that is what you mean by apophatic.

I had no intention of making a theologically loaded assertion. Is it possible you misread my mind? To me, since the Bible is the word of God, the ultimate author is effectively God and, therefore, there cannot be contradictions. To me, this belief (that there can be no contradictions) is as central as believing Jesus is God. Maybe, this is not central to all Christians. I didn't know that. 

Going forward, it would be helpful to know what is a litmus test to determine what is a "theological assertion" because it looks like that is not allowed in the Forum. 

 

Posts 1263
David Wanat | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 4:43 PM

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Beloved Amodeo:
Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

No. 

I might need clarification here. Unless I missed the point, isn't this a question about what resources FL has on the subject?

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Robert M. Warren | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 4:54 PM

David Wanat:

Adam Borries (Faithlife):

Beloved Amodeo:
Is it possible to stay within the forum guidelines and get recommendations on authoritative resources that discuss whether or not freemasonry is heretic to Christianity?

No. 

I might need clarification here. Unless I missed the point, isn't this a question about what resources FL has on the subject?

Yes.

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Adam Borries (Faithlife) | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 4:56 PM

I mean that the question is inherently theological. What constitutes "authoritative?" Whose definition are you using of "heretic"? If we want to give resource recommendations for studying what freemasons believe, great. The minute we make an evaluation on orthodoxy, it is theological by nature.

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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 5:26 PM

1Cor10:31:
To me, since the Bible is the word of God, the ultimate author is effectively God and, therefore, there cannot be contradictions.

This is a very theologically bound belief and does not reflect the majority of Christianity across space and time. As a hint, think of God's ways not being our way's ... that he is not bound by what we perceive as contradictions is a common theological position. In fact, the rule of non-contradiction is being challenged in physics and other sciences. A basic rule of thumb for those who have neither the interest or the time to explore the breadth of Christianity is "if the Sunday school teachers, preachers, faith formation leaders, ... felt they had to teach me why it is true and/or teach me how to defend, it is probably theological.

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

Posts 3165
Beloved Amodeo | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 5:55 PM

Here's an interesting looking resource: Freemasonry: An Introduction not too expensive and may answer my questions.

Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.

International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.

MacBook Pro macOS Big Sur 11.6 1TB SSD 

Posts 33440
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MJ. Smith | Forum Activity | Replied: Fri, May 21 2021 5:59 PM

That looks like a good choice. 

Orthodox Bishop Hilarion Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."

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