Attn: Kyle. book sold in the logos 9 base packages, still not available

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Posts 141
WR82 | Forum Activity | Posted: Tue, Jan 4 2022 2:32 PM

hello all,

Comentario Geográfico Lexham de Hechos hasta Apocalipsis, the Lexham Geographic Commentary, Acts to Revelation, is still not available for users.

It is January 2022. Kyle, could you let us know when this might be made available?

there have been several complaints about this from Spanish speaking users, but no comment from faithlife. Some are saying, perhaps sarcastically, that we may have to wait until Logos 10 is released to see it. Is that going to happen?

Here’s the thread- https://community.logos.com/forums/t/201746.aspx

Blessings,

WR82

Posts 9179
DAL | Forum Activity | Replied: Tue, Jan 4 2022 7:16 PM

Yes, please! The Lexham Geographic Commentary Acts-Revelation Spanish version was included in a Base Package and yet it hasn’t been delivered yet nor any updates (at least out of curtesy) have been given to users that “own” it and are waiting for its release.

Thanks!

DAL

Ps. This is not a complaint but we just need to find out the progress on a resource we’ve already paid for; just an update is fine even if the update said, “sorry guys, we still haven’t gotten around to translate this resource.”

Posts 1813
LogosEmployee
Kyle G. Anderson | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 5 2022 8:23 AM

I'm following up with the Spanish team on this. As far as I know its still being translated from English into Spanish. I'll try to get a better estimate on the timeline.

Posts 1701
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Wed, Jan 5 2022 8:41 AM

Kyle G. Anderson:

I'm following up with the Spanish team on this. As far as I know its still being translated from English into Spanish. I'll try to get a better estimate on the timeline.

I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages. It's one thing to include a book that has been written but not yet produced as a Logos Edition, especially if it's already in production. It's a totally different thing to include books that don't yet exist. If you're not done translating it into Spanish, then the Spanish version doesn't actually yet exist. 

Posts 6125
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2022 9:03 AM

Kiyah:
I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages.

Fair. I think that sometimes resources have been included in Base Packages over the years at least in part in order to finance their production.

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

Posts 1701
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2022 9:24 AM

SineNomine:

Kiyah:
I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages.

Fair. I think that sometimes resources have been included in Base Packages over the years at least in part in order to finance their production.

I would think that would be to finance the production of the resource as a Logos Edition, not to finance its writing. What publishing company makes readers buy a book before the author has finished (or even started) writing it?

Posts 6125
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2022 9:37 AM

Kiyah:
I would think that would be to finance the production of the resource as a Logos Edition, not to finance its writing.

Writing it and translating it are two different things.

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

Posts 1701
Kiyah | Forum Activity | Replied: Thu, Jan 6 2022 9:50 AM

SineNomine:

Kiyah:
I would think that would be to finance the production of the resource as a Logos Edition, not to finance its writing.

Writing it and translating it are two different things.

Yes, but my point is that the Spanish edition does not exist in any format, not even in a Word document on someone's computer, because they're not finished translating it. The Spanish words to be contained within the book are not complete, so I treat that as it not being written. And Logos has sold books that haven't yet been written in the past, ask the people who prepaid for the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary series.

Posts 1133
Juan Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Jan 10 2022 5:49 AM

Gracias a WR82 y DAL por darle seguimiento a este tema aquí. 

Posts 6125
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Sat, Feb 5 2022 8:56 AM

Kiyah:

SineNomine:

Kiyah:
I would think that would be to finance the production of the resource as a Logos Edition, not to finance its writing.

Writing it and translating it are two different things.

Yes, but my point is that the Spanish edition does not exist in any format, not even in a Word document on someone's computer, because they're not finished translating it. The Spanish words to be contained within the book are not complete, so I treat that as it not being written. And Logos has sold books that haven't yet been written in the past, ask the people who prepaid for the Evangelical Exegetical Commentary series.

My point was that the book in question has indeed been written, but not translated (as far as we know). When you are writing a book, you find out exactly what is going to be in the book only when the book is complete. When you are translating a book, you already have the book; you know how long the book is, what it is about, what pictures and diagrams it contains, etc. In other words, you can make a much, much more accurate estimation of how long it will take to translate a book that has already been written than you can make regarding how long it will take to write a book that has not yet been written.

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

Posts 1367
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 10:13 AM

I apologize for the delay in producing this resource, and for over-estimating what we'd be able to produce on time for Logos 9. We've been backed up with a number of Logos 9 resources that haven't yet been delivered, including this one, and we're trying to get them shipped as soon as we can. At this point, my best estimate is that this will get shipped some time in March. 

Just to be clear, the hold-up has not been the translation, but the specialized process we use for generating resources in the Geographic Commentary series. The poor estimation of the work required along with the other tasks we signed up for rests with me. 

(I'll also note that, sadly, I'm not a Spanish speaker, so not able to easily interact on those threads directly. But the Spanish team has been diligently asking about this resource and its timeline on behalf of their customers.)

Posts 1665
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 10:37 AM

Kiyah:

I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages. 

Smilingly disagree. Over the years, they've put uncreated resources in packages, sold them, and then had to produce them (sound of nails on the blackboard). Absent the sale, they'd just quietly remove what was also a prepub.  There's several OL's like that.

Ok, back to Sean's apology.

Posts 141
WR82 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 10:47 AM

Sean, thank you for answering with an explanation and a timeline.  That is wonderful customer service, and I, as a customer, appreciate it.

This answer, though helpful, is still in English. It would go a long way toward easing some frustrations among Spanish users if you, as a Faithlife employee could  collaborate with a Faithlife employee in the Spanish department to provide an official answer in Spanish In the Spanish forum.

The book, and I am thankful again for this answer about it, is not the main issue. The issue is a lack of responsiveness in the Spanish forums when things are going poorly. My aim in all of this is to help Spanish speakers have a forum like we have in English, with folks from Faithlife  chiming in from time to time. If this could be a part of y’all’s circle of care and influence going forward, that would really be great. 

Products are at times delivered without full functionality in Spanish (mobile ed courses that don’t show up in the courses tool, as an example) but there isn’t the same mechanism for feedback and community based, solution focused dialogue  (someone paying attention to the forums) for Spanish speakers. I see the differences because I use Logos in English and in Spanish. Forum posts in English get answers. Posts in Spanish generally haven’t. 

I thought a long time about adding my comments about the wider issue here. Sean, I want to apologize for not just saying thank you… If there weren’t an ongoing pattern, I would be wrong to say more than “thanks”. I am not always right, and I may be in error in feeling grateful as well as still being focused on helping the Spanish team see that users would like more help from them in the forums.

Posts 141
WR82 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 10:50 AM

DMB:

Kiyah:

I wish Faithlife would stop cramming so many resources that don't even exist yet in Base Packages. 

Smilingly disagree. Over the years, they've put uncreated resources in packages, sold them, and then had to produce them (sound of nails on the blackboard). Absent the sale, they'd just quietly remove what was also a prepub.  There's several OL's like that.

Ok, back to Sean's apology.

Hey, let’s reward Sean’s answer with a thank you. 😀

Customer service is not a fun job sometimes, and Sean is doing it well.

it does us no good as customers to always complain, even when someone does something right.

Posts 6125
SineNomine | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 11:03 AM

WR82:

This answer, though helpful, is still in English. It would go a long way toward easing some frustrations among Spanish users if you, as a Faithlife employee could  collaborate with a Faithlife employee in the Spanish department to provide an official answer in Spanish In the Spanish forum.

The book, and I am thankful again for this answer about it, is not the main issue. The issue is a lack of responsiveness in the Spanish forums when things are going poorly. My aim in all of this is to help Spanish speakers have a forum like we have in English, with folks from Faithlife  chiming in from time to time. If this could be a part of y’all’s circle of care and influence going forward, that would really be great. 

Products are at times delivered without full functionality in Spanish (mobile ed courses that don’t show up in the courses tool, as an example) but there isn’t the same mechanism for feedback and community based, solution focused dialogue  (someone paying attention to the forums) for Spanish speakers. I see the differences because I use Logos in English and in Spanish. Forum posts in English get answers. Posts in Spanish generally haven’t. 

In other words, if I understand you correctly, it doesn't really matter to you and other Spanish-using customers what internal questions Spanish-using customer service reps ask, or how often they ask them. Since those reps don't post on the Faithlife Forums, from the customer's perspective, they haven't done anything at all.

“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara

Posts 1367
LogosEmployee
Sean Boisen | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 11:09 AM

Thanks for that response: I'll follow up with the Spanish department to see if they want to respond more appropriately in the Spanish language. 

WR82:
My aim in all of this is to help Spanish speakers have a forum like we have in English, with folks from Faithlife  chiming in from time to time.

That's a great aim, and I'd be happy to try and clarify key issues, though that will depend on the Spanish team letting me know about them and serving as a go-between (again, they've been very proactive is asking about the progress on this specific resource). In case it helps, for me personally it's very hard just to keep up with the high volume in the English forums, and I often lean on others to alert me to something that needs a response (in this case, thanks go to Kyle). We're very glad to have such an engaged user base, and I regularly get helpful feedback and new ideas from all our users, including the Spanish team. 

Another personal note: part of my agenda for Faithlife has always been to ensure that the dollars that go into English development pay dividends for other languages as well. No one will be surprised that we invest a lot more in English overall: but in particular, for the Content Innovation team, when we organize and curate data, and then get it localized into Spanish, German, Portuguese, Chinese, etc. we're greatly expanding the impact of that development outside English and creating resources that would never exist if they had to be funded by those language teams alone. In fact, part of the process we created for generating the GeoComm series was specifically designed to make it easier to publish that resource for other languages. Clearly we haven't gotten there yet, but that continues to be an important goal. For example, with Logos 9, we shipped about 17 new data-derived resources for 7 different languages (that's 119 of them), as close to simultaneously as we could manage (and we're catching up with French). Building that process also took much longer than I anticipated (and has contributed to the GeoComm delays), but having built it, we can now repeat that process much more smoothly in the future. 

Posts 1665
DMB | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 11:17 AM

WR82:

Hey, let’s reward Sean’s answer with a thank you. 😀

Customer service is not a fun job sometimes, and Sean is doing it well.

it does us no good as customers to always complain, even when someone does something right.

You need to slow down and read (?) ... inclusion of unpublished books in packages guarantees being published ... sometimes years later!

Posts 141
WR82 | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 11:23 AM

DMB:

WR82:

Hey, let’s reward Sean’s answer with a thank you. 😀

Customer service is not a fun job sometimes, and Sean is doing it well.

it does us no good as customers to always complain, even when someone does something right.

You need to slow down and read (?) ... inclusion of unpublished books in packages guarantees being published ... sometimes years later!

I am often guilty of that!  Sorry if I misunderstood... I agree with you about this positive aspect to base packages.

I just didn't see you interact with Sean's post.

Posts 19600
Forum MVP
Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :) | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 2:05 PM

Sean Boisen:
I apologize for the delay in producing this resource, and for over-estimating what we'd be able to produce on time for Logos 9. We've been backed up with a number of Logos 9 resources that haven't yet been delivered, including this one, and we're trying to get them shipped as soon as we can. At this point, my best estimate is that this will get shipped some time in March. 

Appreciate update. Could a Spanish product description page (PDP) be created so Spanish Base Packages (Bibliotecas) could link to PDP so customers could see "Comentario Geográfico: de Hechos hasta Apocalipsis" is in progress ? Awesome would be PDP showing projected ship date (like other pre-publications).

Keep Smiling Smile

Posts 1133
Juan Gabriel | Forum Activity | Replied: Mon, Feb 7 2022 4:23 PM

Sean Boisen:
I apologize for the delay in producing this resource, and for over-estimating what we'd be able to produce on time for Logos 9. We've been backed up with a number of Logos 9 resources that haven't yet been delivered, including this one, and we're trying to get them shipped as soon as we can. At this point, my best estimate is that this will get shipped some time in March. 

Ahora tengo una idea clara sobre este asunto, de mi parte quiero agradecer por que ya tengo una respuesta oficial, Gracias!

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